Mortgage Bailout - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

Politics, Government, or Religion Chat Bring your flamesuit!

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier Great Lakes 4x4 Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old July 25th, 2008, 11:01 AM   #1
Chiefwoohaw
Pokerob is my B*tch!
 
Chiefwoohaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 11,507
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default Mortgage Bailout

What do you guys think of the Government and their bailout plan?


I for one think that people should not live beyond their means.
Chiefwoohaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old July 25th, 2008, 11:11 AM   #2
WSU JK
Senior Member
 
WSU JK's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-25-08
Location: Lowering the Per-Capita Income of Bloomfield Hills since 2009!
Posts: 2,585
iTrader: (4)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by InBBA View Post
I for one think that people should not live beyond their means.
It's hard to disagree with that regardless of what the government does to help out homeowners or banks.






On the topic of helping homeowners, I have real mixed feelings. I think that there should be some sort of repercussions for those who took out mortgages that they knew they wouldn't be able to maintain (or in some cases had no intentions of ever paying back), or were smart enough to know better than taking out some mortgage that was interest only or some huge exploding APR, etc... but took them out anyway and that these folks should not get help from the government.

But one thing that a lot of people forget to consider is that these borrowers are neighbors of homeowners who have been paying their mortgages faithfully for many years or who own their homes outright, etc and these good folks are going to be hurt (through no real fault of their own) from the consequences of having foreclosed homes in their neighborhoods that could just likely sit there empty for months and months.



As for the banks, I think this is the kick in the pants that they need to pay more attention to what sort of securities they choose to invest their (and ultimately our) funds in but if the government steps in with a huge bailout for the banking industry there will be a diminished incentive for the banks to do the right thing the next time around.
WSU JK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 25th, 2008, 11:17 AM   #3
JohnnyJ
Low Range Drifter
 
JohnnyJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-09-05
Location: Hartland, MI
Posts: 6,230
iTrader: (38)
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Default

I am not in favor of it. I've already noticed the sleazy mortgage brokers are back to running ads trying to get people to take advanatage of the govt backed loans.

"But one thing that a lot of people forget to consider is that these borrowers are neighbors of homeowners who have been paying their mortgages faithfully for many years or who own their homes outright, etc and these good folks are going to be hurt (through no real fault of their own) from the consequences of having foreclosed homes in their neighborhoods that could just likely sit there empty for months and months."

With the exception of our housing values going down, I don't understand how other people will be hurt in this scenario. If you kept clean and had a mortgage you can afford and pay on it, no bad things will happen. I am one of those folks that may be upside down right now (bought in 04), but since I can afford my house payment, the only thing I am screwed by is the fact that I can't move without taking a loss. I shouldn't get govt money for that.
__________________
Neither Skinny Nor Pretty DEAK Racing 4517 Ultra 4 Mod Class Rig
Surviving Project Car Hell - We have all been there
JohnnyJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 25th, 2008, 11:33 AM   #4
Chiefwoohaw
Pokerob is my B*tch!
 
Chiefwoohaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 11,507
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Very well said in both post.

I'm all for helping someone that lost their job or had other circumstances to where they were good homeowners who paid their mortgage faitfully until the situation arose.
Chiefwoohaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 25th, 2008, 12:20 PM   #5
WSU JK
Senior Member
 
WSU JK's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-25-08
Location: Lowering the Per-Capita Income of Bloomfield Hills since 2009!
Posts: 2,585
iTrader: (4)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyJ View Post
With the exception of our housing values going down, I don't understand how other people will be hurt in this scenario. If you kept clean and had a mortgage you can afford and pay on it, no bad things will happen. I am one of those folks that may be upside down right now (bought in 04), but since I can afford my house payment, the only thing I am screwed by is the fact that I can't move without taking a loss. I shouldn't get govt money for that.
Along with lowered property values, the people who remain in the neighborhoods are going to be faced with dealing with other factors that are associated with lower property values such as increases in crime, higher resident turn-over, lower percentage of owner-occupied homes, increase in abstee landlords, etc...

Also, the cities and school districts that these foreclosed homes are in will experience decreases in tax revenues which will force them to cut back on city services and school spending.
WSU JK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 25th, 2008, 12:41 PM   #6
Chiefwoohaw
Pokerob is my B*tch!
 
Chiefwoohaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 11,507
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

But most of those in the case of MI is more linked to the failure of an industry and economy that was tied to that industry.
Chiefwoohaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 25th, 2008, 04:13 PM   #7
JohnnyJ
Low Range Drifter
 
JohnnyJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-09-05
Location: Hartland, MI
Posts: 6,230
iTrader: (38)
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WSU JK View Post
Along with lowered property values, the people who remain in the neighborhoods are going to be faced with dealing with other factors that are associated with lower property values such as increases in crime, higher resident turn-over, lower percentage of owner-occupied homes, increase in abstee landlords, etc...
Everybody is experiencing price drops. It's not like Detroit's property values are going up and Warren's are going down. It's a drop across the board. Pair that with high unemployment which is hammering the lower classes more than the upper classes, and it will stay on balance the same.

Urban plight has been growing in many areas, especially around Detroit where it's not managed. Using the Detroit riots as a baseline, 8 mile was the line. Over the past 30 years, that line has been moving out slowly. Now in many areas you don't want to be below the trench. That will likely expand unless managed. The city of Detroit has definitely shown that it does not know how to manage it.

Those areas in the danger zone may see more, but on balance, I think this is overreaction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WSU JK View Post
Also, the cities and school districts that these foreclosed homes are in will experience decreases in tax revenues which will force them to cut back on city services and school spending.
They will also have less students to teach and less people that utilize the services. Generally, losing industry hurts much more to the tax base than residental unless it is a bedroom community with no commericial/industrial tax base.
__________________
Neither Skinny Nor Pretty DEAK Racing 4517 Ultra 4 Mod Class Rig
Surviving Project Car Hell - We have all been there
JohnnyJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 25th, 2008, 05:41 PM   #8
whiterhino
I'm not old, honest...
 
whiterhino's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-07-06
Location: Davisburg MI
Posts: 21,296
iTrader: (21)
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Default

I have pretty much been against any type of bailout for the reasons listed above. Those that chose to gamble on a variable rate & lost shouldn't now go crying to the government while I have sat with a conservative rate unwilling to put my home at risk. You gambled and you lost......... oh well.

I do have a slightly different opinion on a person who bought a new house on a balloon payment plan full well knowing that their job was secure and as soon as (insert scenario here ...maybe kid gets out of college or student loan is paid off) they could handle the higher payment in 5 or 7 years. Now their balloon comes due, they have the same steady income, all is well except........... their home is no longer valued at what it was 5-7 years ago and they can't refinance for what they owe on the home. IMO, that is a shame & not the fault of the home owner. Rare case but one that deserves some sympathy.
whiterhino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 27th, 2008, 12:42 PM   #9
ScOoTeR
hoo dat. wat.
 
ScOoTeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-09-05
Location: Howell
Posts: 21,523
iTrader: (35)
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Default

I, sadly, am for it.

IMHO, it is a slap in the face (that you can feel all the way down to your wallet) to the people who bought within their means, didn't gamble with the real estate market and generally are able to take care of their responsibilities.

That being said, I do not believe the market will regain any strength until the foreclosed and near-foreclosure properties dry up. Right now, that's a source of stupidly low priced homes in many areas and it will continue to be the case until people stop losing their homes to the bank.

Life isn't fair. Hell, we're (many people on this forum) already responsible for 80% of the nation's tax revenue to take care of government spending we really don't benefit from (I am targeting the social programs only in this statement).

With the bailout, I see the government stepping in and offering assistance we (well, taxpayers / homeowners) will actually benefit from.
__________________
@clarkstoncracker
ScOoTeR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 27th, 2008, 03:59 PM   #10
WSU JK
Senior Member
 
WSU JK's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-25-08
Location: Lowering the Per-Capita Income of Bloomfield Hills since 2009!
Posts: 2,585
iTrader: (4)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyJ View Post
They will also have less students to teach and less people that utilize the services. Generally, losing industry hurts much more to the tax base than residental unless it is a bedroom community with no commericial/industrial tax base.
While I agree that losing the commercial or industrial base for a community can be much more devastating than losing the residential tax base, it's not as if the cities have planned well in advance and have a big cushion of tax revenues that they can stand to lose.

Additionally, those students who move out of one district are going to have to move into another district. It's a zero-sum game. And most often, those families who have children but get foreclosed upon are probably going to remain in the same area, often going into a rental within the same district while leaving an empty home somewhere else in the district to sit and rot.
WSU JK is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:59 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Page generated in 0.19906 seconds with 51 queries