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Old July 11th, 2008, 03:06 PM   #21
Stan
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[QUOTE=3-foot;1189509]America has a very distinct culture of its own.

I don't want anyone shunned either if they came here legally. I don't think people are blaming legal immigrants for anything, it's those who ignore our laws and come here illegally that are being blamed, and there are valid reasons for that.

I don't see a need/want to learn English or understand our culture, just the opposite. Some of that is our fault for allowing it to be so easy by having #2 for Spanish, etc., its political correctness and its wrong. At the same time they want us to understand their culture and language. Obama said it himself, WE should learn to speak Spanish, not THEY should learn English. Obama is wrong; the burden falls on the immigrant. (pander ... pander ...pander....)

Obama want's to turn the melting pot into a salad bowl.

It's part of the deal of coming to America. It's supposed to benefit the country not the immigrant. The deal is that you can come here to live, be free, pursue happiness. In return, you have to obey the laws, jump in the melting pot, and become a productive American citizen. American's speak English and wave old glory among other things. QUOTE]


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Old July 11th, 2008, 08:38 PM   #22
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I'm all for getting a better control of illegal immigration. I just don't happen to think that refusing to attempt to communicate with anyone who has the misfortune of finding themselves on US soil without a full command of the English language is an effective means of preventing illegal immigrants from coming here. Nor do i think that deporting 12 million people is a good use of our resources.

And better idea, in my eyes, would be to go after the reason most of those illegals come here. Jobs. I'd like to see much harsher punishment for companies that hire illegals. Make the punishment harsh enough that most don't want to risk it and when the jobs dry up they'll go back where they came from and quit coming here.
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Old July 11th, 2008, 09:46 PM   #23
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There is nothing wrong in learning a foreign language. In a global economy it is almost essential.

Now, in this speech, Obama mentioned Spanish. If you listen only to that, I can understand those that think he was saying that language was going to be the only one. I did not hear the whole speech, but from what I have read and heard, the Spanish reference on it's own was not the context of the comments. If you bother to listen a little longer you will hear him explain how people from Europe know many languages, not just their own. And that it is a shame that American children only know American English.

There are many languages we can teach our children. In Europe, the children start learning foreign languages at the same time they start formal instruction in their own. It does not detract from their native tounge, in fact it increases the understanding of the nuances.

Kids in Europe are taught those languages that will help them the most in their future. And no, it is not always English (not American). In my home town, just a few km's from the German border, the kids learn German as their second language because of proximity. In the coastal town they are more likely to learn English. This happens throughout Europe. By the time a child becomes a teen, they usually know 3 languages. Their own, the local choice and then English as a third if they have not already had it.

This is happening in all of the industrialized nations. Why do you think they are kicking our asses on the global stage?

But, here we bicker, because somebody mentions that we should learn......oh, excuse me......give in, to the foreigners. And then the conversation somehow goes to illegal immigration, maybe just to get the blood boiling in some.

Learning a second language has less to do with immigration and more to do with broadening a child's horizons and preparing them for the global markets they are inheriting from their elders.

But, that's OK, fight it all the way. Insult the idea. Link it to illegals. Do what ever you want. Guess what, the rest of the world is teaching their kids more than baseball, auto shop and home ec. The rest of the world is preparing their kids to do the jobs of the future.




Yes, there are foreign language classes in schools already, but the come late and do not teach enough.
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Old July 11th, 2008, 10:31 PM   #24
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I had dinner in Milano with 4 colleagues, one from Japan, one from German, two from Italy. We all spoke English!
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Old July 13th, 2008, 08:06 AM   #25
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Learning a second language isn't what this is about. It's about allowing our culture to be hijacked by another. If you want your kids to know a second language, great, but you shouldn't be forced to know a second language to live in the US, we speak english here.

Here is some info in the group that Obama & McCain were talking to...

Read this and tell me that this isn't all about pandering to illegals, PLEASE!

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/M...about_the_race

National Council of La Raza (National Council of The Race)

15. "The Race" supports driver's licenses for illegal aliens.

14."The Race" demands in-state tuition discounts for illegal alien students that are not available to law-abiding U.S. citizens and law-abiding legal immigrants.

13. "The Race" vehemently opposes cooperative immigration enforcement efforts between local, state and federal authorities.

12. "The Race" opposes a secure fence on the southern border.

11. "The Race" joined the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee in a failed lawsuit attempt to prevent the feds from entering immigration information into a key national crime database -- and to prevent local police officers from accessing the data.

10. "The Race" opposed the state of Oklahoma's tough immigration-enforcement-first laws, which cut off welfare to illegal aliens, put teeth in employer sanctions and strengthened local-federal cooperation and information sharing.

9. "The Race" joined other open-borders, anti-assimilationists and sued to prevent Proposition 227, California's bilingual education reform ballot initiative, from becoming law.

8. "The Race" bitterly protested common-sense voter ID provisions as an "absolute disgrace

7. "The Race" has consistently opposed post-9/11 national security measures at every turn.

6. Former "Race" president Raul Yzaguirre, Hillary Clinton's Hispanic outreach adviser, said this: "U.S. English is to Hispanics as the Ku Klux Klan is to blacks." He was referring to U.S. English, the nation's oldest, largest citizens' action group dedicated to preserving the unifying role of the English language in the United States. "The Race" also pioneered Orwellian open-borders Newspeak and advised the Mexican government on how to lobby for illegal alien amnesty while avoiding the terms "illegal" and "amnesty."

5. "The Race" gives mainstream cover to a poisonous subset of ideological satellites, led by Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlan, or Chicano Student Movement of Aztlan (MEChA). The late GOP Rep. Charlie Norwood rightly characterized the organization as "a radical racist group one of the most anti-American groups in the country, which has permeated U.S. campuses since the 1960s, and continues its push to carve a racist nation out of the American West."

4. "The Race" is currently leading a smear campaign against staunch immigration enforcement leaders and has called for TV and cable news networks to keep immigration enforcement proponents off the airwaves -- in addition to pushing for Fairness Doctrine policies to shut up their foes. The New York Times reported that current "Race" president Janet Murguia believes "hate speech" should "not be tolerated, even if such censorship were a violation of First Amendment rights."

3. "The Race" sponsors militant ethnic nationalist charter schools subsidized by your public tax dollars (at least $8 million in federal education grants). The schools include Aztlan Academy in Tucson, Ariz., the Mexicayotl Academy in Nogales, Ariz., Academia Cesar Chavez Charter School in St. Paul, Minn., and La Academia Semillas del Pueblo in Los Angeles, whose principal inveighed: "We don't want to drink from a White water fountain, we have our own wells and our natural reservoirs and our way of collecting rain in our aqueducts. We don't need a White water fountain ultimately the White way, the American way, the neo liberal, capitalist way of life will eventually lead to our own destruction."

2. "The Race" has perfected the art of the PC shakedown at taxpayer expense, pushing relentlessly to lower home loan standards for Hispanic borrowers, reaping millions in federal "mortgage counseling" grants, seeking special multimillion-dollar earmarks and partnering with banks that do business with illegal aliens.

1. "The Race" thrives on ethnic supremacy -- and the elite sheeple's unwillingness to call it what it is. As historian Victor Davis Hanson observes: "[The] organization's very nomenclature 'The National Council of La Raza' is hate speech to the core. Despite all the contortions of the group, Raza (as its Latin cognate suggests) reflects the meaning of 'race' in Spanish, not 'the people' -- and that's precisely why we don't hear of something like 'The National Council of the People,' which would not confer the buzz notion of ethnic, racial and tribal chauvinism."
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Old July 13th, 2008, 08:14 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
I'm all for getting a better control of illegal immigration. I just don't happen to think that refusing to attempt to communicate with anyone who has the misfortune of finding themselves on US soil without a full command of the English language is an effective means of preventing illegal immigrants from coming here. Nor do i think that deporting 12 million people is a good use of our resources.

And better idea, in my eyes, would be to go after the reason most of those illegals come here. Jobs. I'd like to see much harsher punishment for companies that hire illegals. Make the punishment harsh enough that most don't want to risk it and when the jobs dry up they'll go back where they came from and quit coming here.

Your right, enforcing the current laws works very well. It's funny, a few states have started doing this and they had no need to deport. Once the reason for being there (jobs) was gone, they left on their own.
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Old July 13th, 2008, 08:23 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
100 years ago many immigrants came here and moved in ethnic neighborhoods. If you had gone into many of the stores, homes and churches in those ethnic neighborhood you would have heard many of the people there speaking their native language, not English. Eventually they did assimilate, but sometimes not much until the second generation.

American culture IS multiculturalism. Virtually everything in "American culture" came from some other culture, be it food, religion, music, even our form of government has it's roots in ancient cultures from other lands.

People seem to have forgotten that in a true "melting pot" that with every addition of a new element the resulting mixture is changed, and the more of one element gets added, the more the resulting mixture will look like that element. If we truly want America to be the great melting pot we need to understand and accept that.

If I moved to another country I would not expect the people there to change anything to accommodate me. I would, however, hope that they would be understanding that I came from a place with different culture and language and show some compassion and understanding that I will not assimilate overnight and may need some assistance in learning and understanding their culture and language. I would hope that I wouldn't be shunned and be blamed for the ills of society.
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Old July 13th, 2008, 10:12 PM   #28
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I just want to know who decided Spanish is the "other" language to learn?
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Old July 19th, 2008, 08:56 PM   #29
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My Friends Mom is a "boater" she came over from Germany as a child with her family... she is now in 50's so this isn't 100 years ago. Her parents made everyone learn English, German was not even allowed in the house, because there were American's now and English was it.

Even my Mom who moved here from Canada as a kid was put in speech class because of the way she pronounced things.

I hate to push 1 for English... Learn it or get out!
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Old July 19th, 2008, 11:34 PM   #30
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Fuck that Nigga's couch.
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Old July 23rd, 2008, 06:33 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by DuffMan View Post
I think a second language should be taught in early elementary schools and all children should learn at least two languages fluently.

That said, we also need a law making English the national language, and then we need to stop doing official government business in languages other than English.

No Spanish (or Farsi, Arabic, Korean, etc...) IRS forms, social security paperwork, food stamp applications,e tc...

I 100% agree
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Old July 23rd, 2008, 06:34 AM   #32
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Quote:
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I just want to know who decided Spanish is the "other" language to learn?
some wetbacks
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