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Old July 7th, 2008, 08:13 PM   #1
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Default Big bang?

The law of conservation of energy states that energy can not be created or destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to another.

If energy can neither be created nor destroyed, then how did the big bang.. well bang?

An explosion is energy, right?

It's cool that the laws of science negate the theory of all existence.
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Old July 7th, 2008, 08:45 PM   #2
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I personally think that the universe and all of the matter contained within has always existed.

I obviously have no evidence/research to back this up but it makes sense in my head.
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Old July 7th, 2008, 08:47 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by ddeadserious View Post
The law of conservation of energy states that energy can not be created or destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to another.

If energy can neither be created nor destroyed, then how did the big bang.. well bang?

An explosion is energy, right?

It's cool that the laws of science negate the theory of all existence.
i don't think you understand what the big bang theory states. I'm pretty sure the big bang is viewed as an expansion of matter, but I'm not a physics guy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_bang_theory

Though, I think there is more evidence for the big bang theory than the god did it theory.

I'm not sure what your motivations are with this post, but I thought it would be interesting to mention that by trying to pick at scientific theories in no way makes a religious claim any closer to being right. That's why I always find that it's funny that people try to disprove evolution for religious reasons. It's as if they feel like if evolution were to be dis-proven it would automatically make creationism right...
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Old July 7th, 2008, 10:02 PM   #4
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If energy can neither be created nor destroyed, then how did the big bang.. well bang?

An explosion is energy, right?
How does a spring spring? Stored energy due to it's compression. So if the starting point of a "big bang" is super compressed matter couldn't the bang to the release of the compressive force?

The theory also suggests that that super dense matter was incredibly hot, which could also contribute energy.
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Old July 7th, 2008, 10:05 PM   #5
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I'm not sure what your motivations are with this post, but I thought it would be interesting to mention that by trying to pick at scientific theories in no way makes a religious claim any closer to being right. That's why I always find that it's funny that people try to disprove evolution for religious reasons. It's as if they feel like if evolution were to be dis-proven it would automatically make creationism right...
But conversely just because a phenomenon can be explained scientifically does not dis-prove the possibility of a "supreme being" being behind it.
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Old July 7th, 2008, 10:17 PM   #6
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But conversely just because a phenomenon can be explained scientifically does not dis-prove the possibility of a "supreme being" being behind it.
very true and I think that most rational thinking people would agree.
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Old July 8th, 2008, 09:34 AM   #7
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Two sweet books that relate to this:

A Short History of Nearly Everything, Bill Bryson

This is great and tackles all of the major scientific discoveries/theories from a very easy-to-read perspective and he's a pretty damn funny guy, adding in funny bits about the different people involved. It covers the big bang and everything that folks should at least know something about. Broken up into short bits on each topic, this is easy to pick up and put down as needed. I'm about 3/4 through this.

The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief, Francis S Collins

What caught my eye on this one is that Collins was the head of the Human Genome Project that mapped the human genetic code in DNA. It blew my mind that he'd be writing about belief in God. Great book for rational/scientific people looking to reconcile belief in God with a belief in the scientific method.
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Old July 8th, 2008, 09:39 AM   #8
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cant we just have a jesus or budda (i prefer a fat budda) icon and call it good?



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Old July 8th, 2008, 09:59 AM   #9
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Your point does make sense. How can we have an explosion of energy from nothing?

This energy had to come from somewhere...Also how many explosions have you ever seen or heard of creating life? If a star goes Super Nova it doesn't create new matter, it destroys or transforms (although we could get into a deep discussion on black holes, but I’ll avoid that)...when you light a stick of dynamite it moves earth, rubble and debris. It may even cause something to crystallize but it doesn't create something brand new. The explosion only transforms, disfigures, mutates and relocates matter that already existed. Carbon becomes a diamond, lava becomes an island, sand becomes glass but these are not creations of life only transformation of inanimate objects.

Just my thoughts on the matter, as you can see I am a creationist.
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Old July 8th, 2008, 10:10 AM   #10
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<snip>.... The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief, Francis S Collins

What caught my eye on this one is that Collins was the head of the Human Genome Project that mapped the human genetic code in DNA. It blew my mind that he'd be writing about belief in God. Great book for rational/scientific people looking to reconcile belief in God with a belief in the scientific method.
X2

This is a great book...

And I dig GOD!
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Old July 8th, 2008, 10:12 AM   #11
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Two sweet books that relate to this:

A Short History of Nearly Everything, Bill Bryson

This is great and tackles all of the major scientific discoveries/theories from a very easy-to-read perspective and he's a pretty damn funny guy, adding in funny bits about the different people involved. It covers the big bang and everything that folks should at least know something about. Broken up into short bits on each topic, this is easy to pick up and put down as needed. I'm about 3/4 through this.

The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief, Francis S Collins

What caught my eye on this one is that Collins was the head of the Human Genome Project that mapped the human genetic code in DNA. It blew my mind that he'd be writing about belief in God. Great book for rational/scientific people looking to reconcile belief in God with a belief in the scientific method.
if you find out why he (Collins) began to believe in the Christian god, it's a pretty lame story. He was out backpacking and saw a waterfall with three separate falls. Obviously that was a representation of the holy trinity, thus he became a Christian.... ok.
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Old July 8th, 2008, 10:13 AM   #12
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Your point does make sense. How can we have an explosion of energy from nothing?

This energy had to come from somewhere...Also how many explosions have you ever seen or heard of creating life? If a star goes Super Nova it doesn't create new matter, it destroys or transforms (although we could get into a deep discussion on black holes, but I’ll avoid that)...when you light a stick of dynamite it moves earth, rubble and debris. It may even cause something to crystallize but it doesn't create something brand new. The explosion only transforms, disfigures, mutates and relocates matter that already existed. Carbon becomes a diamond, lava becomes an island, sand becomes glass but these are not creations of life only transformation of inanimate objects.

Just my thoughts on the matter, as you can see I am a creationist.
just because we've never seen it happen in our lifetime (witch, in the time line of the universe would be a fraction of a second) doesnt mean it never happens. i could also use the argument that no one has ever seen an all powerfull entity create life, but it doesnt mean that one of these theorys couldn't be right
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Old July 8th, 2008, 10:34 AM   #13
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Your point does make sense. How can we have an explosion of energy from nothing?
You need to look into the theory, it's not "from nothing" at all.
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Old July 8th, 2008, 10:35 AM   #14
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if you find out why he (Collins) began to believe in the Christian god, it's a pretty lame story. He was out backpacking and saw a waterfall with three separate falls. Obviously that was a representation of the holy trinity, thus he became a Christian.... ok.
I don't get the relevance. What's lame to one is life changing to another and vice versa.
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Old July 8th, 2008, 10:45 AM   #15
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You need to look into the theory, it's not "from nothing" at all.
That leads to question: What is supposed to have caused the big bang itself? What came before time and space existed? If space-time did not exist, how could everything appear from nothing? Explaining this still remains the most difficult problem of the big bang theory. Where did all the matter come from that the big bang displaced across the universe and what caused this huge explosion of energy...a mystery to me.
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Old July 8th, 2008, 10:45 AM   #16
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just because we've never seen it happen in our lifetime (witch, in the time line of the universe would be a fraction of a second) doesnt mean it never happens. i could also use the argument that no one has ever seen an all powerfull entity create life, but it doesnt mean that one of these theorys couldn't be right
"bada boom, big bada boom"

the fifth element.
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Old July 8th, 2008, 10:48 AM   #17
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That leads to question: What is supposed to have caused the big bang itself? What came before time and space existed? If space-time did not exist, how could everything appear from nothing? Explaining this still remains the most difficult problem of the big bang theory. Where did all the matter come from that the big bang displaced across the universe and what caused this huge explosion of energy...a mystery to me.
well, we could just use the same explanation that creationist (is that the right term?) use when asked where God came from.....it was always just there
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Old July 8th, 2008, 10:50 AM   #18
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"bada boom, big bada boom"

the fifth element.
damn, i think now im just so used to google correcting my spelling that i have became a poor speller
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Old July 8th, 2008, 10:52 AM   #19
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just because we've never seen it happen in our lifetime (witch, in the time line of the universe would be a fraction of a second) doesnt mean it never happens. i could also use the argument that no one has ever seen an all powerfull entity create life, but it doesnt mean that one of these theorys couldn't be right
True seeing is not always a 'must' in believing. I have never seen God the creator but do believe in him.

In considering questions related to the origin of life, popular opinion or emotion sway many. To avoid this and to reach accurate conclusions, we need to consider the evidence with an open mind. It is interesting to note, too, that even evolution’s best-known advocate, Charles Darwin, indicated an awareness of his theory’s limitations. In his conclusion to The Origin of Species, he wrote the “…view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one,” thus making it evident that the subject of origins was open to further examination. What Darwin beleived in a Creator? Thats crazy talk

Like you I keep an open mind, but just haven’t “seen” any evidence of a Big Bang creating life. Nor have I read or heard of an argument that convinces me that a creator was not responsible for life. But I do keep an open mind.
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Old July 8th, 2008, 10:53 AM   #20
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That leads to question: What is supposed to have caused the big bang itself? What came before time and space existed? If space-time did not exist, how could everything appear from nothing? Explaining this still remains the most difficult problem of the big bang theory. Where did all the matter come from that the big bang displaced across the universe and what caused this huge explosion of energy...a mystery to me.
And at one time everyone knew that the world was flat, the earth was at the center of the universe, lightning was the Gods being angry...

I think it's one of the more fascinating things about human existence that we always have more to learn and will never know anything (whether created by a creator or not).

Just because we can't explain it right now doesn't mean that it didn't/couldn't exist. Anyone pointing to a lack of explanation of something as existence of a supernatural creator ("God of the gaps" as Collins put it) is treading water until the next scientific discovery is made.

I agree with you that it needs explanation, but that can't be looked on as proof of God's existence or a flaw in the theory.
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