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Old January 30th, 2008, 02:00 PM   #221
AGoodBuzz
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Originally Posted by Mr Toes View Post
This was some earlier comments on this topic

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdhmi
lol

People have tried. It didn't work. God wasn't on their side. If God wanted to force people to love him then he wouldn't have given us free will.

Even the angles have free will. We know this as a third of them fell.

This was my reponse

Dude you opened a whole new debate. If we have free will than it means God does not know everthing because we haven't made a decission yet. A decission that we can go either way on.
The argument that God knows what decission we will make takes away our ability to choose since the choice is already known than there is no choice. In that instance we don't have a free will because if we changed what God knows as our decission it would mean he is not all knowing.

I don't know the answer but it can't be both.


I started the question because I don't have the answer? Call me stumped.
Okay Mr. Stumped.... Heh heh.. I like that. Finally.

Okay, so if it can't be both, and since only your god knows the answer, and since the bible is written by men, then can we agree that the bible may contain other errors that only your god can clear up?

If no, please explain.

If yes, can we then agree that the approach of taking the bible literally may be flawed?

If no, explain.

If yes, can we then agree that the bible may be open to individual interpretation and therefore more suited to be being a guide rather than a book of fact?

If no, explain.

If yes, then might it be remotely possible that some of the passages that are open to interpretation may only be parables and analogies to make a point, rather than a recounting of actual events, especially if the writers of the time had very little knowledge of anything about the world around them so used what little they believed (such as a flat earth, or that the sun moves and the earth sits still, etc.)?

If no, explain.

If yes, why can't you admit that the bible is no more accurate than science, and that in fact NONE of us know the answer (and may never)?
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Old January 30th, 2008, 05:07 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by AGoodBuzz View Post
Okay Mr. Stumped.... Heh heh.. I like that. Finally.

Okay, so if it can't be both, and since only your god knows the answer, and since the bible is written by men, then can we agree that the bible may contain other errors that only your god can clear up?

If no, please explain.

If yes, can we then agree that the approach of taking the bible literally may be flawed?

If no, explain.

If yes, can we then agree that the bible may be open to individual interpretation and therefore more suited to be being a guide rather than a book of fact?

If no, explain.

If yes, then might it be remotely possible that some of the passages that are open to interpretation may only be parables and analogies to make a point, rather than a recounting of actual events, especially if the writers of the time had very little knowledge of anything about the world around them so used what little they believed (such as a flat earth, or that the sun moves and the earth sits still, etc.)?

If no, explain.

If yes, why can't you admit that the bible is no more accurate than science, and that in fact NONE of us know the answer (and may never)?
You answer your questions in your own questions. Like you said Since only my God knows the answer. I can't or won't speculate if the Bible was written with errors in it. If I did it would be pure conjecture on my part.

You have to take the approach that the Bible is literal. Its not a suggestion manual or a multiple choice book. But as I have said over and over the entire message has to be taken into account.

Individual interpetation is a given, does this mean I think this is the way the Bible should be read ? No I think when you give way to interpetations you fall away from the authors intent weather it be God or Darwin. Do you interpet Dawins writings and tell people what he really was trying to say ? I don't believe so. We are going through this with gun control and our constitutional ammendments. This is what is written but thats not what it means. The authors wrote this but thats not what they meant. I think we should take more than the writings of the Bible literally.

As to the earth being flat or the sun moving through the sky why do you insist that when this is said in the Bible it's because they didn't know something while toughting how smart the scientists of today are and they say the same thing. Are they saying these things knowing they are incorrect and trying to decive us or are they as misinformed as you would like everbody to believe the autors of the Bible are. This would go back to the lie telling thing by the scientists.

The inaccuracies that I point out in science are the ones the scientists put on themselves. I haven't made a comparrison between science an Christianity nor have I tried to discount or disprove scientific facts with Chiristianity. Therefore for me to take the position that science and The Bible are equally inaccurate would be akin to comparing or relating a certain type of meal to particular building material ?????? no relevence

I will agree that I don't know the answers but I think I will someday.















My mom used to make corned beef and peas in a gravy over toast we called it S.O.S. or shit on a shingle.


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Old January 30th, 2008, 09:59 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by Mr Toes View Post
You answer your questions in your own questions. Like you said Since only my God knows the answer. I can't or won't speculate if the Bible was written with errors in it. If I did it would be pure conjecture on my part.

You have to take the approach that the Bible is literal. Its not a suggestion manual or a multiple choice book. But as I have said over and over the entire message has to be taken into account.

Individual interpetation is a given, does this mean I think this is the way the Bible should be read ? No I think when you give way to interpetations you fall away from the authors intent weather it be God or Darwin. Do you interpet Dawins writings and tell people what he really was trying to say ? I don't believe so. We are going through this with gun control and our constitutional ammendments. This is what is written but thats not what it means. The authors wrote this but thats not what they meant. I think we should take more than the writings of the Bible literally.

As to the earth being flat or the sun moving through the sky why do you insist that when this is said in the Bible it's because they didn't know something while toughting how smart the scientists of today are and they say the same thing. Are they saying these things knowing they are incorrect and trying to decive us or are they as misinformed as you would like everbody to believe the autors of the Bible are. This would go back to the lie telling thing by the scientists.

The inaccuracies that I point out in science are the ones the scientists put on themselves. I haven't made a comparrison between science an Christianity nor have I tried to discount or disprove scientific facts with Chiristianity. Therefore for me to take the position that science and The Bible are equally inaccurate would be akin to comparing or relating a certain type of meal to particular building material ?????? no relevence

I will agree that I don't know the answers but I think I will someday.


My mom used to make corned beef and peas in a gravy over toast we called it S.O.S. or shit on a shingle.


The Phantom

I LOVE shit on a shingle! Yummmm!

Please provide the quote where I touted how smart scientists are.

Your question about whether scientists are misinformed or lying requires us to first agree that they are wrong, but with regard to the earth being round and orbiting the sun, I would like to know if you disagree. Given that space flight is a reality, and that our satellite telescopes and other studying technology can accurately measure speed and distance, and since space flight is about to be available to people like you and me, I think you would be hard pressed to discredit much of it without looking foolish.

There are countless errors in science. I've been saying that all along. That's what I love about science. If we could never admit we were wrong we would learn very little.

You use science in building a 4x4. DOM tubing is a product of metalurgy. Internal combustion is a combination of physics and chemistry. There were so many sciences that had to experiment and perfect what was learned in order for you to even BEGIN to build a 4x4. You experiment and learn and apply what you've learned every time you add something to your wheeler and take it ot and try it. Sometimes you're right, sometimes your wrong. That's science. I would at least think that you could agree with that, and if you can, then you must admit that science is not the state of being right, it is the process of questioning and learning. If you can't admit that, then you are either stubbornly refusing to admit that because it might weaken your argument, or you are... Well, I'd rather not say. I like you too much.:miff:




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Old January 31st, 2008, 08:21 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by AGoodBuzz View Post
I LOVE shit on a shingle! Yummmm!

Please provide the quote where I touted how smart scientists are.

Your question about whether scientists are misinformed or lying requires us to first agree that they are wrong, but with regard to the earth being round and orbiting the sun, I would like to know if you disagree. Given that space flight is a reality, and that our satellite telescopes and other studying technology can accurately measure speed and distance, and since space flight is about to be available to people like you and me, I think you would be hard pressed to discredit much of it without looking foolish.

There are countless errors in science. I've been saying that all along. That's what I love about science. If we could never admit we were wrong we would learn very little.

You use science in building a 4x4. DOM tubing is a product of metalurgy. Internal combustion is a combination of physics and chemistry. There were so many sciences that had to experiment and perfect what was learned in order for you to even BEGIN to build a 4x4. You experiment and learn and apply what you've learned every time you add something to your wheeler and take it ot and try it. Sometimes you're right, sometimes your wrong. That's science. I would at least think that you could agree with that, and if you can, then you must admit that science is not the state of being right, it is the process of questioning and learning. If you can't admit that, then you are either stubbornly refusing to admit that because it might weaken your argument, or you are... Well, I'd rather not say. I like you too much.:miff:




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Sorry my mistake you are the guy that say's science makes countless errors.

I"m not trying to discredit science I merely was pointing out the fact that scientists on a regular basis say the stars moving threw the sky, the sun moving to the horizon. My point is if the say it why is any more accurate or inaccurate than if someone else say's it? We presume the scientists believe the earth is moving, but we don't ask for an indepth explination as to why they don't say that. However with the Bible it's a point that you try to manifest into lack of knowledge or God not knowing something. If we are to take this position then it must also be true that ever scientist that made similar statements have the same shortcommings, especially the ones that have since died and we are unable to get a clairification from them.

I have never disagreed that science is constantly changing and learning new things. What I have said is things we are told are scientific fact or these are therories that prove something all could be nullified tommorrow by the same scientists making the claim today. This puts me into the realm of being a scientists as I question the accuracy of their claims, more often than not the claim is either eventually changed, discounted, dismissed, or modified in almost ever instance. Does the earth move around the sun? Yes but recently Science has now made the claim the infact the sun is also moving in an orbit of its own. Does this mean the sun acually moves throughthe sky? Stay tuned as this scientific answer will be reviled or ah um changed next time on Call A Scientist A Liar. lol

I think we agree on what science is.














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Old January 31st, 2008, 09:52 AM   #225
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Sorry my mistake you are the guy that say's science makes countless errors.

I"m not trying to discredit science I merely was pointing out the fact that scientists on a regular basis say the stars moving threw the sky, the sun moving to the horizon. My point is if the say it why is any more accurate or inaccurate than if someone else say's it? We presume the scientists believe the earth is moving, but we don't ask for an indepth explination as to why they don't say that. However with the Bible it's a point that you try to manifest into lack of knowledge or God not knowing something. If we are to take this position then it must also be true that ever scientist that made similar statements have the same shortcommings, especially the ones that have since died and we are unable to get a clairification from them.

I have never disagreed that science is constantly changing and learning new things. What I have said is things we are told are scientific fact or these are therories that prove something all could be nullified tommorrow by the same scientists making the claim today. This puts me into the realm of being a scientists as I question the accuracy of their claims, more often than not the claim is either eventually changed, discounted, dismissed, or modified in almost ever instance. Does the earth move around the sun? Yes but recently Science has now made the claim the infact the sun is also moving in an orbit of its own. Does this mean the sun acually moves throughthe sky? Stay tuned as this scientific answer will be reviled or ah um changed next time on Call A Scientist A Liar. lol

I think we agree on what science is.

I can't believe I said that The Phantom

Except for the "liar" part:

Main Entry: lie
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): lied; ly·ing \lī-iŋ\
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English lēogan; akin to Old High German liogan to lie, Old Church Slavic lŭgati
Date: before 12th century
intransitive verb

1 : to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive

The important part there is "intent to deceive". Do you believe that scientists intend to deceive us, or that they are making statements they believe at the time to be true, but sometimes turn out to be wrong?
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Old January 31st, 2008, 09:55 AM   #226
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I can't believe I said that The Phantom
Doesn't weaken in any way the immense amount of respect that I have developed for you during this debate. You kick ass dude!
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Old January 31st, 2008, 09:56 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by 87'YJ View Post
Your question is completely irrelevent and off subject. The question that I answered was "were there people other than Adam and Eve". Your answer should be to either refute my point with some sort of evidence or agree with it.

I had not touched the arguement of Adam and Eve being real.
Nope and you didn't read all the post's in this thread. Its about the facts of the bible, or lack there of! The thought of a woman being created from a rib just cracks me up!


Oh the question was not irrelevant, I just want one of the people on here that are telling me the bible is based on facts and real events to prove one to me! I still haven't seen any proof that anything in the bible is more then just a compilation of a bunch of stories put together in 1 book. So let's see that proof!

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Old January 31st, 2008, 04:41 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by AGoodBuzz View Post
Except for the "liar" part:

Main Entry: lie
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): lied; ly·ing \lī-iŋ\
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English lēogan; akin to Old High German liogan to lie, Old Church Slavic lŭgati
Date: before 12th century
intransitive verb

1 : to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive

The important part there is "intent to deceive". Do you believe that scientists intend to deceive us, or that they are making statements they believe at the time to be true, but sometimes turn out to be wrong?
Sometimes I believe they intentionally deceive even their own peers for the purpose of personal gain. They, scientists, after all are human, its not like its God talking or something. lol
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Old February 1st, 2008, 03:57 PM   #229
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Sometimes I believe they intentionally deceive even their own peers for the purpose of personal gain. They, scientists, after all are human, its not like its God talking or something. lol
I believe that too, and I believe that there are specific examples of it, among which are the fiasco over who really discovered the AIDS virus. You are right about that. However that doesn't make science in general a lie.
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Old February 1st, 2008, 04:31 PM   #230
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I believe that too, and I believe that there are specific examples of it, among which are the fiasco over who really discovered the AIDS virus. You are right about that. However that doesn't make science in general a lie.
I never said science was a lie never never never never and I still haven't.













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Old May 27th, 2008, 05:07 PM   #231
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I never said science was a lie never never never never and I still haven't.













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Old May 27th, 2008, 06:42 PM   #232
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Sweet a "Come back like Jesus" thread.

I.E. Back from the Dead.
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