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Old May 20th, 2008, 02:45 PM   #21
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ok..I can understand that...but how is my electrical system going to negatively effect my gas mileage? that part I DON'T understand.
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Old May 20th, 2008, 03:06 PM   #22
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ok..I can understand that...but how is my electrical system going to negatively effect my gas mileage? that part I DON'T understand.
More of a draw on your electrical system causes more load on the engine. Thus causing the engine to use more fuel. Most people don't realize the load the alternator has on the engine.

Just as an extreme example, I was using an on board welder this past weekend. You set the throttle on the engine to a certain RPM, and when you start welding, the RPM's drop tically. You wouldn't think an alternator has that kind of load on the engine, but it does.
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Old May 20th, 2008, 03:14 PM   #23
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thank you for all the input. It is why I am asking these questions. I am trying to not be the "fool and his money are soon parted". I am trying to educate myself with the reasons this will NOT work. After seeing the video's of Stan Meyer's sand rail and the Ford Escort Wagon that he runs this on, I wanted to find out more.
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Old May 20th, 2008, 03:18 PM   #24
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thank you for all the input. It is why I am asking these questions. I am trying to not be the "fool and his money are soon parted". I am trying to educate myself with the reasons this will NOT work. After seeing the video's of Stan Meyer's sand rail and the Ford Escort Wagon that he runs this on, I wanted to find out more.
What happens with most all "get better fuel mileage" tricks, is that the user wants to make damn sure they are getting their money's worth and drives differently. That is where the mileage gain comes from. The average person can drive and get at least 10% better mileage than they are currently getting if they were to drive smarter. Some more aggressive drivers could gain more.
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Old May 20th, 2008, 03:25 PM   #25
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What happens with most all "get better fuel mileage" tricks, is that the user wants to make damn sure they are getting their money's worth and drives differently. That is where the mileage gain comes from. The average person can drive and get at least 10% better mileage than they are currently getting if they were to drive smarter. Some more aggressive drivers could gain more.
I am a good example of that. Driving thru Saginaw if I drive my normal ways I get 20-21 MPG with my Malibu.

If I back off the accelerator I get 25-26 MPG.

Highway I get 24 @ 80-85
31 @ 65
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Old May 20th, 2008, 05:16 PM   #26
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thank you for all the input. It is why I am asking these questions. I am trying to not be the "fool and his money are soon parted". I am trying to educate myself with the reasons this will NOT work. After seeing the video's of Stan Meyer's sand rail and the Ford Escort Wagon that he runs this on, I wanted to find out more.

A mixture of hydrogen and oxygen burns GREAT! Its how the gas is generated that is a load of crap.
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Old May 20th, 2008, 06:05 PM   #27
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Yep,
The whole power/efficiency boost that you're looking for is eaten by the alternator . . . It takes a lot to spin that thing if it's pulling a load, like it would be running some sort of electrolysis.
Think about the last time you jumped a car with a dead battery. You notice how the revs drop on the running car when you attach the cables . . . that's the alternator pulling the engine down.
And that's just at idle where the alternator is not pulling as hard as it will at higher engine speeds.
Damn thermodynamics . . . I thought about building a turbine that would drive itself back in elementary school . . . then I learned about the conservation of mass/energy etc. Fuggin' laws.
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Old May 20th, 2008, 08:02 PM   #28
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Yep,
The whole power/efficiency boost that you're looking for is eaten by the alternator . . . It takes a lot to spin that thing if it's pulling a load, like it would be running some sort of electrolysis.
Think about the last time you jumped a car with a dead battery. You notice how the revs drop on the running car when you attach the cables . . . that's the alternator pulling the engine down.
And that's just at idle where the alternator is not pulling as hard as it will at higher engine speeds.
Damn thermodynamics . . . I thought about building a turbine that would drive itself back in elementary school . . . then I learned about the conservation of mass/energy etc. Fuggin' laws.

Eurika, somebody understands!!!!!
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Old May 20th, 2008, 08:11 PM   #29
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I use electrolysis to remove rust from parts. effectively the "soda" is used to lower the ph of the water. baking soda will be less effective that what you need you use: washing soda. you can turn the baking soda into washing soda by placing it on a cookie sheet and baking it at 350 for an hour or so. or just buy the washing soda.

seriously this whole homebrew awesome gas mileage for no money is hogwash.
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Old May 20th, 2008, 08:25 PM   #30
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I use electrolysis to remove rust from parts. effectively the "soda" is used to lower the ph of the water. baking soda will be less effective that what you need you use: washing soda. you can turn the baking soda into washing soda by placing it on a cookie sheet and baking it at 350 for an hour or so. or just buy the washing soda.

seriously this whole homebrew awesome gas mileage for no money is hogwash.
Distilled (or pure) water will not conduct electricity. You must add some type of salt (in this case sodium carbonate the salt of carbonic acid) to have the electolytic process. I could go on about positive and negative ions but all you have to do is crack open a basic chemistry text book to figure it all out.
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Old May 20th, 2008, 08:34 PM   #31
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Even of you ignore the laws of thermodynamics, even if you could make a system that was 100% efficient, even if everything worked perfectly, You car still has only 1 source of energy, the gas you put in the tank. The best you could hope for out of a system like this is for it to not make your mileage worse.
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Old May 20th, 2008, 08:56 PM   #32
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Even of you ignore the laws of thermodynamics, even if you could make a system that was 100% efficient, even if everything worked perfectly, You car still has only 1 source of energy, the gas you put in the tank. The best you could hope for out of a system like this is for it to not make your mileage worse.
*sniff* I love you man.
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Old May 20th, 2008, 09:28 PM   #33
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Well one statement made in the the big three has very little to do with fuel mileage they can have produce engine that will and can get great mileage but with all the epa bull will keep cars from getting there. Not to mention the oil companys that have bought up more patents a long time ago would increase mileage by better than 40% all the way back into the 50 and maybe earlier. I know for a fact that is true. So when oil gets up to a point that the oil companies get their money we will never see those out in the puplic.

Another thing most great improvements in fuel mileage was never done by big corpration anyway...those Improvements where done by back yard mechanics that did not understand you can't do that because if it could be done then why has not the big corparation done it....most where trail and error just like what some do with a 4X4
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Old May 20th, 2008, 09:58 PM   #34
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Well one statement made in the the big three has very little to do with fuel mileage they can have produce engine that will and can get great mileage but with all the epa bull will keep cars from getting there. Not to mention the oil companys that have bought up more patents a long time ago would increase mileage by better than 40% all the way back into the 50 and maybe earlier. I know for a fact that is true. So when oil gets up to a point that the oil companies get their money we will never see those out in the puplic.

Another thing most great improvements in fuel mileage was never done by big corpration anyway...those Improvements where done by back yard mechanics that did not understand you can't do that because if it could be done then why has not the big corparation done it....most where trail and error just like what some do with a 4X4
Please post said "facts"
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Old May 21st, 2008, 06:20 AM   #35
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Please post said "facts"
x2

Conspiracy theorist.
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Old May 21st, 2008, 06:33 AM   #36
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i agree with Duece228. it HHO, or electronic sparkplugs or carburator spacer blocks or vortex intake gadgets, etc. made a significant jump in milage, then all auto makers would be installing them, regardless of additional cost or weight penalities in order to sell more cars. if they worked i'd pay 200~300 more for a car that got 25% more milage at $4/gal. here's a case where market forces would really work if the product worked as advertised.
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Old May 21st, 2008, 07:07 AM   #37
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brewmenn hit the nail on the head.

also, alternators have such an impact on engine load that the new ecm's are controlling the charging of the vehicle's system intelligently now by doing things like charging while braking and disengaging it entirely during acceleration. it has been pretty common to shut off charging while WOT on performance vehicles for a while now. just recently it has become more of a widespread technology.

a percent here and a percent there adds up quickly.

please post up these magical patents (numbers) that the oil companies hold that are preventing 40% better fuel economy. you know one of the easiest ways around a patent is to give revenue to the patent holders for the use of the idea, process or technology that is protected.

edit: and I jut asked around.... patents are only good for 10 years unless there is new technology brought into them that allows them to continue protection.

Last edited by 95geo; May 21st, 2008 at 07:32 AM.
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Old May 21st, 2008, 04:56 PM   #38
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HHO works! I asked the tooth fairy!!
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