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Old April 22nd, 2008, 09:35 AM   #41
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I side with 95geoboy on this one, if the b and the c from the cage are tied into the frame I don't really see that thing breaking.

I was looking at my jeep the last time I was working on it. I currently have the cage tied to the tube in 9 friggin places, tied to the frame in 4, and eventually it will be 6, when does the madness stop? Add in corner guards and rockerguards that will tie to the cage/frame/tub and it starts to really get ridiculous.

Take Whiterhino's jeep for example, are the links tied to the frame? of course right, then where do the shocks tie into the frame? Are they then tied into the tub or cage at all? once everything begins to all tie together in so many places it starts to get a little crazy and there really isnt much room for a total failure. It becomes so overengineered that you end up 1,000 pounds+ heavier then you needed to and you used a lot more material then you needed too and the damn thing lasts pretty much forever.

Johnnyj hit the nail on the head, I've seen him wheel, I've seen his pictures, he flat beats the shit out of his jeep, its very simple, very well done, and it rarely breaks, and other then sheetmetal, it doesnt look all that bent, twisted etc.

It's not a baja 1000 truck.
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 09:55 AM   #42
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Raw crow, or cooked crow? The thing is looking good, your dad was telling us all about it yesterday...
depends on how bad it breaks

I heard about that.... it's a small world
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 10:11 AM   #43
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Raw crow, or cooked crow? The thing is looking good, your dad was telling us all about it yesterday...
Did he tell you it's the most fun project he's ever worked on? I think he's having a blast working on a "real" off road machine.
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 10:21 AM   #44
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Did he tell you it's the most fun project he's ever worked on? I think he's having a blast working on a "real" off road machine.

I figured he was so far away from home because he was trying to get away from it. That, or Bryce let him wander again... Then I saw the rest of the family, so I knew he was safe. However, he never really used the words "real," but I knew he wanted to.
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 10:24 AM   #45
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looks very nice guys.
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 11:34 AM   #46
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Usually the winch is just used to lower the center of gravity to help it climb. It would do nothing for sway. All ass ends will pass the fronts on a wrangler if driven hard on the road too
Looking good guys, when your done you can come over to help me finish mine if you want.


wrong it does a whole lot more for sway then it does helping it climb in my opinion.

think about it if you sinch both the front and rear winches down on a jeep and take out the spring factor you basically have tank.
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 11:59 AM   #47
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wrong it does a whole lot more for sway then it does helping it climb in my opinion.

think about it if you sinch both the front and rear winches down on a jeep and take out the spring factor you basically have tank.
The reason I think it is good for climbing is it stops the suspension from unloading. I guess you could consider that sway.
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 12:17 PM   #48
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how would you two know?? like you guys have ever climbed anything...geeezzz were is the engineer....
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 01:00 PM   #49
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I dont I just like to talk like I do on the internet.

I do believe that the sway bar depends on the rig. My buggy needed a sway bar because whe you would climb anything on an angle the load would shift suddenly to the back lower corner lifting the front opposite tire in the air. Put a sway bar on and it kept the front down. My tj does not seem to have the same problem.
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 04:47 PM   #50
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wrong it does a whole lot more for sway then it does helping it climb in my opinion.

think about it if you sinch both the front and rear winches down on a jeep and take out the spring factor you basically have tank.
I got that but are you going to drive around with winches compressing your suspension all day? And if driven like that it will still pivot on the plane the cable is on (as in side to side) right? Dont most people use them for climbs? I see that in an airshock it would increase the rate but not allowing it to unload and lose traction is a reason too no? I quess I dont get why you would build a suspension with x amount of travel and than pull it down with a winch to fix the handling (climbs aside). It would seem a sway bar would be easier/better. Anyway, sorry for cluttering up a nice build thread.
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 05:56 PM   #51
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ya, how the hell did this turn into a Q and A about winches and sway bars......

there will be a sway bar on the back and the winch on the front with center limit straps.

Why? because it works.
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 06:10 PM   #52
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I got that but are you going to drive around with winches compressing your suspension all day? And if driven like that it will still pivot on the plane the cable is on (as in side to side) right? Dont most people use them for climbs? I see that in an airshock it would increase the rate but not allowing it to unload and lose traction is a reason too no? I quess I dont get why you would build a suspension with x amount of travel and than pull it down with a winch to fix the handling (climbs aside). It would seem a sway bar would be easier/better. Anyway, sorry for cluttering up a nice build thread.

i usually left slack in both winches until needed i think they are an over used trend. 90 percent of the time i used them was when descending or side hilling so the suspension wouldnt unload. when climbing i wouldnt suck the front down i would winch in until the rope got tight then bump the switch to back it off a bit.

i found that having the front to tight hurt me more than it helped when trying to crest a hill i would always belly out.
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 06:16 PM   #53
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sorry, back on track.
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 06:42 PM   #54
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What wheelbase did you end up with?


FWIW, I built my buggy frame from 2x3x0.120", butt welded just like yours, I have no worries that it'll give me any problems when its done.

Granted, I would follow different rules on a stock frame that is work hardened, but I don't see it necessary on new rect tube. Always interesting how people think stock frames are strong.

Looks very nice
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 07:21 PM   #55
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Looks good, but needs more polish.
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 07:50 PM   #56
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What wheelbase did you end up with?
104 at ride height. Actually shortened it up a half inch even with the stretch tank.

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Looks good, but needs more polish.
Polish what? Sausage? Saurkraut?
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 08:58 PM   #57
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Looks good.

How easy/hard are the air shocks to set up?
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 09:15 PM   #58
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How many inches did you go in the front? just curious with the stock style steering, although you did use a reversed arm right? I'm guessing if you did you needed at least 6 in the front. How did the tank work out? Glad you got that one?
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 09:55 PM   #59
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How many inches did you go in the front? just curious with the stock style steering, although you did use a reversed arm right? I'm guessing if you did you needed at least 6 in the front. How did the tank work out? Glad you got that one?
Bryce would have to answer exact but I think we went about 5 & 5. There is nothing stock about the steering. Yes, reversed.

Since we redid the frame, I can't say whether the tank had good fit to the OEM mounts. I felt the fit & finish was simply OK. It was not deburred anywhere, it still had drill chips inside and the hose fittings were just straight tube without any bulbs or barbs.
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 10:00 PM   #60
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Whos tank was it?

After seeing the Gen Right tank we put in Kirby's truck I understand why these things are so expensive.
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