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Old March 26th, 2008, 07:16 PM   #21
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Hey guess what... There's a reason they call it the THEORY of Evolution too. Creationism does hold up to Scientific theory although you have to assume that a god exists (in the same way that you have to assume that billions of complex mutations bring order out of chaos!)

No one has ever proven MACRO-evolution occurs (the THEORY that species can evolve/mutate into each other)... just MICRO-evolution (changes within a set species). Any science teacher will agree that all that they teach about the theory of evolution (macro-evolution) is based off of what we know about MICRO-evolution.

Your "creationist" bashing requires that you actually have a handle on the topic that you pimp as truth!
Evolution ties together everything we currently "know" about Biology. Evolution is like you said, testable. I.D. is not, therefore doesn't stand up as even a scientific theory. I guess we could call it a theory, just not a scientific one. This is fine, because it seems to me, that science is the bane of most religious people's existence.

Here's a scientist telling you why ID isn't science:

http://www.csicop.org/intelligentdes...t-science.html


P.S. here are some real scientists picking out all of the errors in this Denver Museum :tonka:

YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.



P.S.S. Where is the evidence for creationism? You are defending creationism by attacking the theory evolution. Try to defend your stance just on it's own merit without attacking the other side. It's hard isn't it. All you have to look to is "the good book". No evidence, just stories, this is how it happend. just believe it.

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Old March 26th, 2008, 08:05 PM   #22
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PICTUREs OR IT DIDNT HAPPEN
I can't give you any pictures because the only thing we had as a pictorial record was to draw stick people on cave walls with the blood from the buffalo's we speared walking home from school.
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Old March 26th, 2008, 08:08 PM   #23
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Well, I said I didn't want to get into this in the other thread. But I didn't realize what this thread was about intill now. <Cracks Fingers>

ID, from what I udnerstand, can stand alone. It's mostly about the probabilities of all things coming together to create life.

Our Planet is a very senstive planet. I beleive it's something like 2 or 3 degrees towards or away from the sun we woudl either fry or Freeze. Most Astronomers (sp?) would agree that our universe is constantly expanding, yet our planet does not move.

How about vertical stratified layers of "rock". What we learn in school is that by looking at a rock face (of a certain type of rock) we can see the different sedement layers. These layers represent the "millions of years" of change that our planet has gone through. Yet there is vertical sediment layers that go through these layers.


And yes mike, I have seen the Kent hovind videos, I think he brings up good points. And like it's been said countless times. You were not there for the begining of the universe (Human kind was goo or something right?), I was not there, Ben stien wasn't; we have no proof either way. However, Students in a public school are led to believe it's scientific fact. When it's not.


Most ID scientists (Yup, they are out there) don't use God to explain the world around them. They use the world around them to point to God.
And for my final statement, Evoultion is a Belief in the science of things dying in order perserve life. You can't evolve unless things die. Creationism (ID) is a Belief in the creation of life for a specific purpose by a Loving, caring, incontrol, Creator. Evoultion is a Belief in science. Too bad you can't pin that to a religion.




I like to think I was created, have a purpose, and am loved, cared for, and have some one bigger then me in control of my life.


<Zip>
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Old March 26th, 2008, 09:31 PM   #24
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what other theories? ID, Like I just said, though, Bruce, ID is not a scientific theory. So you would have to say something like there are other "blank" to explain life, but aren't scientific and based on religious mythology. How much sense would it make to present this in a science class?
How about "Every culture has stories that attempt to explain the origin and development of life, and it is nearly impossible to prove or disprove any of them. In this science class we will present the theory of evolution. Although this theory is the one most widely accepted and supported by science, it is a theory and future discoveries could prove some of all of it to be proven false."

But I think also it depends on the context in which it's being presented. If it's being presented in a biology class as the mechanism for species to change and adapt to changes in their environment the maybe no disclaimer is needed. But if it's being presented as the mechanism for how the earth went from a lifeless rock to having reasonably intelligent beings capable of having this discussion then you're starting to cross over the line between science and history and it needs to be acknowledged that not everything about human history is known or knowable.
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Old April 5th, 2008, 03:08 PM   #25
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Hey mike, Just curious, are you goign to see it?
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Old April 6th, 2008, 03:44 PM   #26
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hmm, i might rent it.
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Old April 6th, 2008, 10:15 PM   #27
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Good Deal
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Old April 7th, 2008, 07:45 AM   #28
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I'm not expecting much, though, if i can already critique it even before I've seen it with the lies they've told in what they did to make it.

http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2...led_produc.php

hmm, i wonder if it will be full of lies, half-truths, and misconceptions?
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Old April 7th, 2008, 10:19 AM   #29
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I'm not expecting much, though, if i can already critique it even before I've seen it with the lies they've told in what they did to make it.

http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2...led_produc.php

hmm, i wonder if it will be full of lies, half-truths, and misconceptions?
I read that link, it was better than the threads on this site. I was invited to a premier, no you weren't, You changed the name of a film, We had RSVP requirements via email, You didn't have a ticket to enter the movie, you used paper from trees in Oregon instead of Washington.
That proves my position on evolution and christianity.
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Old April 8th, 2008, 10:00 PM   #30
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I read that link, it was better than the threads on this site. I was invited to a premier, no you weren't, You changed the name of a film, We had RSVP requirements via email, You didn't have a ticket to enter the movie, you used paper from trees in Oregon instead of Washington.
That proves my position on evolution and christianity.
wtf are you talking about.

here's Richard Dawkins play by play of the events:

http://richarddawkins.net/article,23...ichard-Dawkins

P.S. I was listening to Eugenie Scott talking about how you got in, you had to sign up online and give the number of guests you were going to bring. This is how they "caught" PZ, he had followed all of their rules on how to get into the screening and saw his name on the list. Richard's name wasn't on the list as he was a guest. Eugenie tried to reserve a spot at the screening after this debacle for a different location but was denied (hmm I wonder why?)

From what I've heard, the film is mistruths and a plot that tries to tie atheism with nazism. retarded.
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Old April 9th, 2008, 06:34 AM   #31
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wtf are you talking about.

here's Richard Dawkins play by play of the events:

http://richarddawkins.net/article,23...ichard-Dawkins

P.S. I was listening to Eugenie Scott talking about how you got in, you had to sign up online and give the number of guests you were going to bring. This is how they "caught" PZ, he had followed all of their rules on how to get into the screening and saw his name on the list. Richard's name wasn't on the list as he was a guest. Eugenie tried to reserve a spot at the screening after this debacle for a different location but was denied (hmm I wonder why?)

From what I've heard, the film is mistruths and a plot that tries to tie atheism
with nazism. retarded.

I thought it was similar to a thread here where you have a decent subject to debate, like the movie, but the whole thing goes haywire into some pointless he said she said thing that dosen't matter at any level. If you can get PZs address and he really wants to see the movie, and or comment on it , I'll send him a ticket or the money to buy one, I would like to see the movie and hear another point of view. I'm not particulary interested in heariring him bitch about the way the popcorn was buttered.

I won't tell you what I heard about the movie what I will do is tell you what was in it when I see it.
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Old April 9th, 2008, 09:06 AM   #32
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wtf are you talking about.

here's Richard Dawkins play by play of the events:

http://richarddawkins.net/article,23...ichard-Dawkins

P.S. I was listening to Eugenie Scott talking about how you got in, you had to sign up online and give the number of guests you were going to bring. This is how they "caught" PZ, he had followed all of their rules on how to get into the screening and saw his name on the list. Richard's name wasn't on the list as he was a guest. Eugenie tried to reserve a spot at the screening after this debacle for a different location but was denied (hmm I wonder why?)

From what I've heard, the film is mistruths and a plot that tries to tie atheism with nazism. retarded.

Ya know what? I was reading an interview (link here) with ben stien the other day and he said that people would make that exact accustion and that's not what he meant. He also goes into great detail about what he meant for the movie. I would very much suggest you read it. I'm sorry that it's on a Baptist site, You'll just have to get past the theological indoctrinated banners on the side. :tonka:

There have been multple movies of the same magnitude (?) as this one that were for things I didn't agree with. When I saw the movie I went in with an open mind, and acutally learned something. I would think that the non-creationist scientific Community might do the same thing here. I'm probably wrong. I mean, who says that scientists have to open minded?
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Old April 9th, 2008, 07:21 PM   #33
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I have a legitimate question. Who was the first scientist to come up with the therory of evolution?
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