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Old April 9th, 2008, 01:06 PM   #1
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Default Someone please explain to me why I should be in favor of outsourcing.

My fiance's cousin is an accountant wand he is in favor of outsourcing.

I understand that, with outsourcing, products are cheaper for the consumer (and, all too often, cheap in construction as well), but it's hard for me to see any real benefits.

He says that it's better to outsource because, even though, in the short term, people may lose their jobs, they probably didn't like the jobs they had anyway (things like being an assembler, or engineer), and they'll find better jobs once the menial tasks are shipped away.

I'm personally studying engineering, and I like it.

I don't think that I'd be happier with a 'service job' (one of the few classifications of jobs that are considered "safe").

He says the creative will survive, but I think about those who are not blessed with creativeness. Some people are damn good, hard workers, but they don't come up with good ideas. What happens to those people (the service industry can only hold so many people)? Some of those people are terrible at "customer service" (they like to be told what to do, and then be left alone to do it). Where is the future for them?

Products will be cheaper, but the non-working still can't afford them. I could foresee this as an even further separation between "those who have" and "those who have not.

I don't want to start an argument or finger pointing. I just want understanding, so I won't be so closed minded.

Opinions? Thoughts?

Thanks!

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Old April 9th, 2008, 01:11 PM   #2
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Here's a quick answer:
Long term it isn't good because unless new technologies happen here or new jobs can be created, all other service aspects will go down the drain because no one has a job.

It looks good to have your labor expense drop by half if not more, but in the long run it just isn't good.

So if you ask me, you shouldn't be in favor of it. I sure as hell aren't.
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Old April 9th, 2008, 01:12 PM   #3
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being from the auto industry i feel strongly on this subject because i am one of those hard workers who paycheck is going right down the tubes. Outsourcing is b/s, trade is good as long as it does not ruin your own country's economy. Tell your cousins fiance to look at all the numbers around the us, including unemployment rates and foreclosures and ask him how creativity fixes that. Im pretty sure he drives a foreign car to, right?
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Old April 9th, 2008, 01:14 PM   #4
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Long term it isn't good because unless new technologies happen here or new jobs can be created, all other service aspects will go down the drain because no one has a job.

It looks good to have your labor expense drop by half if not more, but in the long run it just isn't good.

So if you ask me, you shouldn't be in favor of it. I sure as hell aren't.
He says the opposite, and that's what I'm having trouble understanding.

"People will lose jobs" - short term
"People will find better jobs and enjoy cheaper prices/products" - long term

That leaves me .
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Old April 9th, 2008, 01:15 PM   #5
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Im pretty sure he drives a foreign car to, right?
Of course.

He's also trying to sway the fiance into getting one too...but that's not happening on my watch. :miff:
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Old April 9th, 2008, 01:16 PM   #6
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Of course.

He's also trying to sway the fiance into getting one too...but that's not happening on my watch. :miff:


good for you
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Old April 9th, 2008, 01:16 PM   #7
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being from the auto industry i feel strongly on this subject because i am one of those hard workers who paycheck is going right down the tubes. Outsourcing is b/s, trade is good as long as it does not ruin your own country's economy. Tell your cousins fiance to look at all the numbers around the us, including unemployment rates and foreclosures and ask him how creativity fixes that. Im pretty sure he drives a foreign car to, right?
Wouldn't you be happier with a different job? Is there one that would use your talents more?

Don't you want cheaper products?

Do you see long term benefits?
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Old April 9th, 2008, 01:24 PM   #8
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Did he happen to graduate from CMU?
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Old April 9th, 2008, 01:26 PM   #9
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I believe then mentality is, in some cases, the outsourced jobs are done so because of the employment price. The line man making $30/hr here, is getting done else where for $8/hr. This frees up $$ for increased product development, engineering, and other things. It also does allow for a company to be more competitive in the world of imports.

Perhaps some of the engineers here would speak on this. I know my uncles shop kept losing workers to other fields because they were able to make more money. These were skilled designers and fabricators that were unable to be fairly compensated. He said the sad fact is some left to work for the auto industry and now they are having to go find something again, but others left the industry completely.
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Old April 9th, 2008, 01:26 PM   #10
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First bean counters don't think normal! He does not sound like someone who has others well being in mind. I am sure that there is a dude in Bangledesh that will do his job for .13 on the dollar too. All this work going offshore is only going to devaluate the $ more. So on top of losing descent wage opportunities all goods and services inflate exponentially. The great depression is coming again, just watch. Ask him to Count that!
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Old April 9th, 2008, 01:29 PM   #11
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Quote:
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Wouldn't you be happier with a different job? Is there one that would use your talents more?

Don't you want cheaper products?

Do you see long term benefits?
Im actually in a dealership and im a service writer - i really do enjoy (for the most part) talking w/ people and helping them fix there cars. Im sure there are better jobs out there but i really dont mind mine

im sure i could get a job where i fully execute my talents but my wife wont let me do adult film so that sucks

As far as cheaper products are you talking about chinese toys w/ lead in them?

The long term benefits would be the u.s going down the drain because our economy is now dependent on other foreign countries and who really wants that? What happens if we go to war with japan for some odd reason and all the factories that make there stuff here pull out and there are no u.s run corporations left here?

I think what all the pencil pushers that are running this country and doing this crap is forgetting exactly what this country was founded on.... hard work by americans for americans - there is a reason that we are greatest nation in the world - am i wrong?
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Old April 9th, 2008, 01:30 PM   #12
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Arguments against outsourcing are similar to those made decades ago by opponents of using robots in the workplace.

Robots made factories more productive. People lost jobs, but they found others. Now, in the "long term" we see the benefits of using robots. Outsourcing is very similar. And just like with robots, there will be a threshold where it's simply not economical to outsource, just like it doesn't make sense to use robots for certain jobs.
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Old April 9th, 2008, 01:31 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by General Lee View Post
He says the opposite, and that's what I'm having trouble understanding.

"People will lose jobs" - short term
"People will find better jobs and enjoy cheaper prices/products" - long term

That leaves me .
That's what everyone wants you to believe, and it's a big IF.

Even still, there would be a shitload of unemployment between losing a job, and trying to find a better job. If everything was outsourced, very few jobs would exist anymore in this country besides things that require direct human contact.
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Old April 9th, 2008, 01:33 PM   #14
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Old April 9th, 2008, 01:37 PM   #15
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Ah, I found one good point:

Outsourcing allows our businesses to make cheaper products TO COMPETE WITH SIMILAR FOREIGN GOODS.
(ex. japan sells a spoon for $0.50. If we make it here it's $2.00, if we make it in china, it's $.073. So our BUSINESSES can benefit by outsourcing.)... but that still hurts the workers...or, as they can be called...CONSUMERS!

I also think the "led paint" comment is not a good arguing point. I don't want to delve into deeper issues, but there are plenty of foreign products that don't harm people and there are plenty of products "built in the USA" that have had corners cut and had to be recalled.

I also did like the "what if we went to war" comment, and I've thought of that as well.

Anyone else?

Anyone have a good argument for?
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Old April 9th, 2008, 01:40 PM   #16
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Arguments against outsourcing are similar to those made decades ago by opponents of using robots in the workplace.

Robots made factories more productive. People lost jobs, but they found others. Now, in the "long term" we see the benefits of using robots. Outsourcing is very similar. And just like with robots, there will be a threshold where it's simply not economical to outsource, just like it doesn't make sense to use robots for certain jobs.
Does having robots do our jobs give them leverage? Are we in debt to them?

Can robots put us in an economic choke hold?

Were many jobs CREATED because of robots (producing them, engineering them, servicing them, improving them)? Can as many jobs be CREATED from outsourcing?

I see the point you're trying to make...but it's still not quite the same from my point of view.

Also, we implied that we recognized the types of jobs that would stay here ("service work"), but is there enough of that to go around? Is that type of work what makes people happy and satisfied? Does it pay enough? etc... Please explain.

Last edited by General Lee; April 9th, 2008 at 01:43 PM.
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Old April 9th, 2008, 02:30 PM   #17
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[QUOTE=General Lee;1045545]Does having robots do our jobs give them leverage? Are we in debt to them?

We are already indebted to other countries. This is as much a burden to them as it is to us. They are holding a debt denominated in a devaluating currency.

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Can robots put us in an economic choke hold?
They wouldn't want to, or be able to, do it unless they are suicidal. We are too interconnected with financial markets. If they do something stupid, they'll end up hurting themselves.

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Were many jobs CREATED because of robots (producing them, engineering them, servicing them, improving them)? Can as many jobs be CREATED from outsourcing?
But weren't those often foreign companies producing robots? Outsourcing creates jobs as well. You have to have a group running the operation, logistics, transportation, distribution centers.

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I see the point you're trying to make...but it's still not quite the same from my point of view.
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Also, we implied that we recognized the types of jobs that would stay here ("service work"), but is there enough of that to go around? Is that type of work what makes people happy and satisfied? Does it pay enough? etc... Please explain.

Not only service producing jobs will remain. Just like robots didn't eliminate all assembly jobs. Some production just doesn't make sense to outsource. Costs of outsourcing will soon outnumber the benefits (cost will go up as $ devalues, other coutries' economies will pick up the standard of living to the point where their wages rise to the point of not being competitive, transport costs are going up, quality control, etc.).
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Old April 9th, 2008, 03:07 PM   #18
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Close the borders and bring it all home! We should all get paid an honest wage for an honest days work. design it, build it, and sell it here and look out for us for once...
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Old April 9th, 2008, 03:22 PM   #19
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The one thing we have seen in the past is that outsourcing has done to the US is taake the low educated and lower incomes away from the stated and sent them to other countries look at our steel industries that have gone accross the seas. Can someone explain to me how they can produce steel from our scap metal and ship them back to us cheaper than we here in the states can do???

Most of the stuff we get from overseas is the same thing we designed, developed , and then it moved to another country to be produced. Some of the forgien manufactures are moving their finishing factroies to the US, why???? Because they realized that if they keep going the pace that where in the US would not be able to buy their products.

But the money profits are going to their countries and not back into the US. I know this much I don't mind the rich getting richer but let's keep the riches in the US not in forgien lands.

Something that I wished that never would have happen and it's has happen in my life time is the forgivness ot dedit that forgien nations had to the US in war repairs and disasters and see how those countries now look at us.

If you want to see what is going on here in the US look at what is being writen by forgien news writers of europe....
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Old April 9th, 2008, 03:49 PM   #20
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The one thing we have seen in the past is that outsourcing has done to the US is taake the low educated and lower incomes away from the stated and sent them to other countries look at our steel industries that have gone accross the seas. Can someone explain to me how they can produce steel from our scap metal and ship them back to us cheaper than we here in the states can do???
Labor Unions.

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Most of the stuff we get from overseas is the same thing we designed, developed , and then it moved to another country to be produced. Some of the forgien manufactures are moving their finishing factroies to the US, why???? Because they realized that if they keep going the pace that where in the US would not be able to buy their products.
??? I don't believe so. They moved here because for other reasons.

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But the money profits are going to their countries and not back into the US. I know this much I don't mind the rich getting richer but let's keep the riches in the US not in forgien lands.
What???

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Something that I wished that never would have happen and it's has happen in my life time is the forgivness ot dedit that forgien nations had to the US in war repairs and disasters and see how those countries now look at us.
Agree. There is no benefit of being a US ally during war, you might get screwed, that's about it. But if you loose against US, all the power to you. That's a little messed up.

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If you want to see what is going on here in the US look at what is being writen by forgien news writers of europe....
Which socialist newspaper are you referring to?
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