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Hey Chrysler guys...

10K views 100 replies 29 participants last post by  nickb304 
#1 ·
What say you?:poke: Is this going to have a transmission that won't break in half when you hit a speed bump?

http://m.usatoday.com/article/news/1917131

How long before GM and Ford follow suit?

Updated: 02/13/2013 08:21pm

Chrysler Group will announce Thursday that it will offer a diesel in the standard-duty Ram 1500 pickup in the third quarter this year, making it the first modern half-ton pickup in the U.S. market with a diesel power option.

That should attract a significant number of buyers, because while a diesel typically costs more than a gasoline engine up front, it uses less fuel, has greater pulling power, often lasts longer and has higher resale value — dollars-and-cents issues important to business users who account for many pickup sales.

Ram's internal studies show that "customers have been emphatically asking for this, thirsting for it, craving it," said Fred Diaz, CEO of Chrysler's Ram brand in a phone interview from Mexico (Diaz is also CEO of Chrysler de Mexico).

He wouldn't forecast sales, but said, "The business case (for Ram) is a positive one. This isn't just a little side note. We plan to do good business with the diesel."

That's because he thinks the pool of half-ton diesel buyers is deep. "This isn't a one-and-done or a fad," he said.
 
#3 ·
I think it will be the 6.0 powerstroke of its brand. People will buy them strictly as a commuter truck and plug up the DPF or something else because they aren't using them as intended.
 
#9 ·
Ford/GM will not jump into this for a long time....it doesnt make sense right now for a diesel half ton when Dodge will get 25mpg with a 4x4 diesel that carries a $4500 premium to buy the diesel, and a a 10-15% fuel premium over gasoline. I love diesels but at this point with the increased cost to meet emissions it will not catch.

FWIW the half ton to get with a diesel is going to be a Nissan Titan with the 5.0l cummins.
 
#15 ·
Is this going to be one of those things where people have been saying "why cant I buy a diesel? If somebody made one I would be at the dealer waving my money." But when its manufactured it doesnt sell, the program gets cancelled, all other programs in the works get cancelled and the manufacturers say "Americans wont buy diesels". The internet then becomes abuzz with people saying how much engine envy they have because Europeans get all the diesels and if somebody would sell one here the line would be a mile long at the dealer.

I see the Cruze going down that way for sure.
 
#16 ·
This thread just happened with the cruze. :teehee:

I think there were a LOT of people who would have jumped all over this idea.........

  • When diesel was cheaper than unleaded
  • when diesels were able to get better mileage with out being emissions choked
  • if the diesel was offered at a reasonable upgrade price
  • when oil wasn't priced through the moon so the oil changes didn't kill you
  • when diesels were fairly simple and reasonable to repair
  • when gas engines couldn't make reasonable torque/hp for towing
  • before the eco boost
  • when 1/2 tons got worse mileage than 3/4 diesels

A diesel 1/2 ton with todays emissions bullshit, in my eyes, just isn't going to make enough power and get enough mpg's to make people all giddy to pay the extra cost. Add in the fact that power isn't your limiting factor in towing with a half ton truck and there you have it.....at least those are my thoughts.
 
#18 ·
Pretty much sums up why GM and Ford both backed out of there programs. If you not using the truck for towing all the time or towing really big loads often, Customers just didnt want to spend the extra coin up front and for maintance for a vehicle they will probally get rid of before they get there money back in longeviety (either long term owner or high mile user)
 
#31 ·
You are a pretty smart guy.


The hay day for diesels has come and gone in this country.

There is just no justification for a $6-8k price adder, to spend 25% more on fuel, 200% more on maintenance costs, just to get a few MPG more for the grand majority of consumers. Even with the new gas motors there isn't a ton of reason to have a diesel unless you are towing big boy stuff a lot of miles.
 
#22 ·
The Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 3.0L V6 Diesel MPG is projected at 20 city and 28 highway for the 4x4 model. I would expect the Ram to come in around 18 city and 26 highway, hopefully. With 220ish HP and 420ish ft-lbs. of torque, that's pretty sweet.

The downside is that for the GC, it's a $4,500 option. If it's the same for Ram, comparing the fuel mileage savings to the Hemi (14/20), it would take approximately 7.5 years to make up the difference (15,000 miles a year, fuel @ $3.50 a gallon, highway mileage used).

It's kind of like the Volt. Awesome concept, but the cost isn't there yet. Hopefully if the 3.0L makes it into other platforms, (Wrangler is a likely target) the cost will go down.

As far as the transmissions, we're using the same suppliers as other OEMs out there. ZF, Aisin, etc.
 
#24 ·
The Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 3.0L V6 Diesel MPG is projected at 20 city and 28 highway for the 4x4 model. I would expect the Ram to come in around 18 city and 26 highway, hopefully. With 220ish HP and 420ish ft-lbs. of torque, that's pretty sweet.

The downside is that for the GC, it's a $4,500 option. If it's the same for Ram, comparing the fuel mileage savings to the Hemi (14/20), it would take approximately 7.5 years to make up the difference (15,000 miles a year, fuel @ $3.50 a gallon, highway mileage used).

It's kind of like the Volt. Awesome concept, but the cost isn't there yet. Hopefully if the 3.0L makes it into other platforms, (Wrangler is a likely target) the cost will go down.

As far as the transmissions, we're using the same suppliers as other OEMs out there. ZF, Aisin, etc.
Those who use their truck to haul will just get the hemi or a 3/4 ton. Those who use their truck to have a truck can get 25 mpg according to the commercials with the V6 offering.

I just can't see it being a big enough advantage anywhere to justify the cost and complexity you are adding to your truck.
 
#23 ·
I for one have been waiting for a 1/2 ton diesel truck. I like the ride of my half ton and only pull a trailer occasionally. I can not justify spending $50,000+ on a new 3/4 ton diesel. If they offer this in their current Express model (to keep cost down) I may have to really consider it.
 
#25 ·
Didn't think about cost comparison to a 3/4 ton. I don't think tow ratings for the half ton will change much just because of the diesel addition. Fuel mileage while towing would be better than the Hemi and the cost of the truck would obviously be less than that of the 3/4 ton Cummins. The 3.0L Diesel in a half ton would also have better mileage than the Cummins.
 
#41 ·
It all depends on the price of the diesel. If they are going to add 8k to the MSRP like they do in a 3/4 ton then it makes no sense at all.

Right now I pull the Jeep with a 1/2 Silverado with a 5.3L. While it does pull it fine every time I get to a hill it can not maintain speed. If I wanted to have it screaming at 4500 RPM it would do it but I will not beat on my truck that hard.

Bottom line is my truck works for now but I would like the extra power from time to time. I have not pulled anything with one of the new Hemi engines yet and I may find that handles everything I need it to do just fine. It really all just comes down to cost.

If you compare a new Silverado with the max trailer package they add just under $3,700 to the MSRP. If Dodge can add a diesel for around $4,500 that doesn't seem like a bad trade off.
 
#50 ·
Several years ago when we designed & built the test stands for the last Ford diesel it was designed with the capability to test a V6 diesel (4.4L IIRC) that was going to be available in the F150. Ford since pulled the plug on that program and I believe the latest upgrades have done away with the V6 capability.
 
#66 ·
For what it's worth.

My 03 Duramax used to get 20ish unloaded and somewhere around 12 with the camper on, flat towing, or with the car hauler. (IIRC)

My 07 Duramax got around 15-16 unloaded and less than 12 loaded. (IIRC)

Kerry's 07 Powerstroke gets like 13(City)-16(Hwy @65) unloaded and like 10-11 no matter what its pulling, camper, empty trailer, JK on trailer, it doesn't matter.

I also used to tow a lot with an 01 Duramax that had similar numbers to my 03.
 
#73 ·
Thats actually kind of a neat comparison.

It shows that the truck with the smallest motor gets the best unloaded mileage, but takes the biggest hit when towing and that the truck with the biggest motor has the worst unloaded MPG, but takes the smallest hit towing.

Brand preference aside it seems like the Dodge would be the best commuter truck that tows very little, the Ford the best truck that tows a lot, and the Chevy as the best middle of the road option.

I was kinda surprised that the Cummins had the worst economy of all the diesels. I kinda thought when it came to the latest generation the Powerstroke was the suck for MPG...

I like too how it really illustrates the previous posts about how the slight increase in mileage is typically not worth the cost and hassle of owning a diesel for most people.

I have to say, nice find GMonkey :)
 
#76 ·
In regards to price, it seems that everyone is under the misconception the general truck buyers main concern is the total price of a truck
In the new truck market sales are easily made to customers based on how well a payment fits their budget
Im sure there will be more than enough buyers for 1/2 ton diesels
 
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