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Drummond Island illegal wheeling in Car and Driver ???

23K views 180 replies 29 participants last post by  tweak 
#1 ·
Does anyone read Car and Driver? In the new issue (New Corvette on the cover) they went to DI to test several "soft-roaders". There are pictures of them parked on the beach which I am pretty sure is illegal. There are also several pics of them driving on flooded trails which, I believe, is also illegal. Am I correct? I won't even mention the part where they snap what appears to be a 1" tow strap.:(
 
#91 ·
Editor,

I would like to direct your attention to a discussion taking place on www.greatlakes4x4.com in regards to a recent article in your publication. The discussion can be seen here http://www.greatlakes4x4.com/showthread.php?t=72187 I'd ask you take a look at the discussion and the fuss you have caused. It would appear you have possibly trespassed, wheeled illegally, and failed to tread lightly. As an offroad enthusiast I suggest you do your part in correcting your mistake, a mistake which will in turn damage my hobby's reputation and possibly our rights to public land, by donating to the cause at www.glfwda.org, www.ufwda.org and also www.treadlightly.org

It's bad enough that we have to fight the battle with fellow enthusiasts who are trying to do the right thing, now we have to cover up for your mistakes as well?

In the future if you want to go offroad contact the people in the know at any of the websites above and make sure you adhere to the states laws in regards to proper orv use.

Thanks,

UP_ROKTOY




sent.....
 
#103 ·
Sent this:

Dear Editor,
I am the trail ride committee chairman for Great Lakes Four Wheel Drive Association (GLFWDA.org) which is a non profit organization dedicated to the sport of Full Size 4x4 vehicle recreation. Our organization is in constant contact with the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality (DEQ) and we continually find ourselves doing damage control with the DEQ due to uneducated people violating our state laws.

Your recent article depicting vehicles on Drummond Island was recently brought to my attention. It is articles like this that continue to get more of our public land closed. Your people driving on closed beaches give the unknowing beginner the false impression that these are open beaches. In turn, it gives those trying to close our public land more ammunition, showing how people disregard the laws.

You are not the only ones. I find it horrifying how many of our auto companies show 4x4’s splashing through streams and mud with wheels churning. This tells everyone that this is what the enthusiast wants.

Well, we don’t.

I suggest that you contact the local Michigan DEQ office and explain that you have heard from GLFWDA and we do not approve. Further, I suggest that you print “A LARGE” retraction in your magazine noting your mistake. A simple small blurb buried in the editor’s page is not sufficient.


Sincerely,
A very disgruntled reader

Jim Kitson
Davisburg, MI

GLFWDA Trail Ride Committee Chairman
Just look at what I started.:tonka: Good work guys. I am drafting mine right now.:thumb:
 
#93 ·
Sent this:

Dear Editor,
I am the trail ride committee chairman for Great Lakes Four Wheel Drive Association (GLFWDA.org) which is a non profit organization dedicated to the sport of Full Size 4x4 vehicle recreation. Our organization is in constant contact with the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality (DEQ) and we continually find ourselves doing damage control with the DEQ due to uneducated people violating our state laws.

Your recent article depicting vehicles on Drummond Island was recently brought to my attention. It is articles like this that continue to get more of our public land closed. Your people driving on closed beaches give the unknowing beginner the false impression that these are open beaches. In turn, it gives those trying to close our public land more ammunition, showing how people disregard the laws.

You are not the only ones. I find it horrifying how many of our auto companies show 4x4’s splashing through streams and mud with wheels churning. This tells everyone that this is what the enthusiast wants.

Well, we don’t.

I suggest that you contact the local Michigan DEQ office and explain that you have heard from GLFWDA and we do not approve. Further, I suggest that you print “A LARGE” retraction in your magazine noting your mistake. A simple small blurb buried in the editor’s page is not sufficient.


Sincerely,
A very disgruntled reader

Jim Kitson
Davisburg, MI

GLFWDA Trail Ride Committee Chairman
 
#94 · (Edited)
How about Craig Hoffman? As he's the one that was the alleged 'expert guide' that took C&D around. I believe he needs to understand the laws of this state also. Ignorance is no excuse.
Maybe a few e-mails to him would help the 'education process'?

Additionally, 'Closed unless posted open' is a management process to control UNLICENSED ORV's, Not full size vehicles with SOS licensing. Our legality hurdle is the 2WD rule, nothing more. And to make it even more confusing, D.I. is in the UP which is 'OPEN Unless Posted Closed' for state lands. Which means everything on State of Michigan property on D.I. is open as long as it can be driven by a 2WD car or M/C or Quad which seems unfair as the full size vehicles could have substantually less trails than the quads have to run on UNLESS the DNR uses the 2WD rule to define open and closed roads for ALL ORV's.
Very confusing is an understatement!
jim-kb8ymf
 
#96 ·
How about Craig Hoffman? As he's the one that was the alleged 'expert guide' that took C&D around. I believe he needs to understand the laws of this state also. Ignorance is no excuse.
Maybe a few e-mails to him would help the 'education process'?

Additionally, 'Closed unless posted open' is a management process to control UNLICENSED ORV's, Not full size vehicles with SOS licensing. Our legality hurdle is the 2WD rule, nothing more.
jim-kb8ymf
if you have contact information for said guide post it up, I dont see anything wrong with a few emails shot his way also.
 
#97 ·
I wish I had the editorial I mentioned earlier written by John Phillips. It would also be something worth mentioning how he ventured out on a trail alone in bad weather. It was a Fall issue it was in.

Anyone have a few issues back to check it out?
 
#98 · (Edited)
As far as I'm concerned, Jim is 100% correct.

In my opinion, the forest road definition thats currently on the State of Michigans books should be considered the single most serious problem all full sized 4x4 vehicle use is now facing, SOS licenced or not.

The way its begining to sound, to me, if a 2 track, by-way, trail or road (for lack of a better term) is NOT, by definition, deemed to be a forest road by local DNR law enforcement, [ie..NOT Passable in 2WD] and does not have any other qualifiers assigned to it, like an ORV trail marker, County Road Sign etc. Then as I'm begining to under stand it, that trail/byway is no longer to be considered an open road and can be closed to all further traffic. Its the DNR Law Enforcement Division's means of closing any now open 2track, trail, path, road etc.. on State Forest Land to full sized vehicular traffic as they see fit; actually they can close it to any kind of Off-Road traffic as far as that goes. Basicly, the local CO can bypass, at will, by invoking the forest road definition; the now existing Upper Peninsula's "open unless posted closed" laws/regs on any trail, 2 track, path or road within their jursdiction.

Talk about a gray area..... The way I see it,, unless some counter action is taken, any CO, on any given day, can issue a ticket or close a road on a whim. A person could legally run a road on Monday... Get a ticket on Thursday and return to see the whole thing bermed off and closed on Saturday. I realize its an extreme example in its brevity... but thats what happened to the Clear Lake here on Drummond in a short period of time. As I understand it, the same process is happening to other roads/trails on State Land across the U.P.

Without a better understanding of just how a "Forest Road" is truely defined on a State wide basis... or obtain a better understanding of just when the definition can be applied, or which user group it is actually going to be applied too.. {I did not hear of a single Hunter getting a ticket this past fall for using their 4x4 pick-up trucks on any of the same trails the Full Sized 4x4 folks were ticketed on this past summer} then in my opinion, each of us better check with their local CO to see what kind a mood he's in before they take their next Sunday ride into the backwoods.
 
#105 ·
Another question along these lines. Is the 'two wheel drive rule' in any way like the navigable waterway rules?
What I mean is if a two wheel drive car is able to go down a trail only five or six given days out of the year, it was still able to do so and therefore the 'road' should be open to all vehicular travel. Much like being only able to float a log down a waterway a couple days out of the year (normal high water line) makes a stream considered navigable.

Just thinking out loud......:rolleyes:
My head hurts.:(
 
#109 ·
Good work with the letters guys... Let us know the response!

Now the next question: Should we send tons more of the emails to C&D so they don't blow off the letters saying it is just a couple over-sensitive people... ? I know that this does not look good for them (or us because of their mistake not to research their guide) and this is a circumstance where if done right and get the retraction we could get some good PR out of the deal. I would hope they take this as seriously as we are.
 
#112 ·
Good work with the letters guys... Let us know the response! Now write yours :thumb:

Now the next question: Should we send tons more of the emails to C&D so they don't blow off the letters saying it is just a couple over-sensitive people... ? I know that this does not look good for them (or us because of their mistake not to research their guide) and this is a circumstance where if done right and get the retraction we could get some good PR out of the deal. I would hope they take this as seriously as we are.

I think the more letters sent the better chance we get some sort of response from them.
 
#110 ·
It always gets their attention when more than one or two letters arrive on a subject. I still remember when I caught one of the 4X4 rags winching a vehicle out with a cable wrapped around a tree. You'd would have thought I was a tree-huugging eco extremist by the way they replied to me.
So, the more the merrier.
jim-kb8ymf
 
#111 ·
Grenade has been launched.....We'll see if they respond.

______________________________

Dear Mr. Craig Hoffman and Editors of Car & Driver:
re: Mudpuppies article

I just finished reading the latest Car & Driver article and I was deeply disappointed by the actions exhibited by the writers under your guidance.

Great Lakes Four Wheel Drive Assn has worked for many years with State and Local DNR Officials in an effort to change the public perception that 4 wheelers are nothing but mud-bogging environmentally irresponsible yahoos! That article has set the progress back a few years and gave environmentalist one more nail for the coffin.
Besides violating numerous state laws with regard to being in the water with the vehicles and driving on closed trails, the actions dipicted by yourself and C&D have given the general public the idea that they can just drive right out on to the rocky beach or down any forest road without legal ramifications. That simply is not true. Those actions alone would have cost your group thousands of dollars if the DNR would have caught you.
You of all people, with all your awards for environmental responsibility, should know better than to drive a vehicle out on sensitive piece of land like the edge of the lake or go thrashing through a forest road without regard to it's effect on the surrounding ecosystem.
That act is akin to driving a golf cart across a soggy fairway or over a green. You certainly wouldn't do that, would you?
While you weren't necessarily in the pictures, you were the guide and defacto ambassador of 4 wheeling for that outing. It was your responsibility to keep the the writers within the bounds of the Tread Lightly principals. These are the credo which GLFWDA, MSG 4WD Club, Jeep Jamboree, Drummond Island Offroad Club, and others that use Drumond Island for recreational activities adhere to.
On a final note, wouldn't Turtle Ridge ORV Park been a more applicable location to showcase 4WD vehicles as it is the one legal place to play on Drummond Island?

For future reference Great Lakes Four Wheel Drive Assn or the Drummond Island Offroad Club members who are knowledgeable in the ORV laws of the State of Michigan would have served as outstanding guides and would have done so if we had been contacted.

GLFWDA can be reached via their website at www.glfwda.org
Drummond Island Offroad Club can be reach via the Turtle Ridge Offroad Park www.turtleridgeorv.com
Tread Lightly Information can be found at www.treadlightly.org

Respectfully,
James Mazzola
UFWDA Ambassador Member
GLFWDA Lifetime Member
kb8ymf@juno.com
_____________________________________________
 
#119 ·
I wouldn't have heart burn over that picture. It looks like there is some vegitation on the left and being 6-8" deep it's more like a temporary flooded trail. It's being driven at a reasonable speed and this type of trail is something the DNR has told us is OK to travel down.
Just glad NOT to see 14 foot roostertails coming out the sides! Something all magazines are famous for.
Now if I could only find that letter from the DNR telling us that.......
jim-kb8ymf
 
#121 ·
I was up in the Soo yesterday and bought my 1st Car and Driver magazine.
That was a 1st. Anyway.. upon closer inspection of the various pictures, I did notice the photo lining up all the cars.. along what appears to be shore line was actually taken inside the Quarry next to one of the shallow run off ponds. If you look close, you can see the rock wall behind the cars. I had been thinking the ground under the cars looked way to flat to be shore line on the lake..Once I saw the magazine picture,, I understood why.

As to the rest of the pics showing the lake background .. well, those were not good. Even the two on private property in the sand in front of the boat house. The really troublesome shot is the one showing another large group of test rides setting on the rocky shore...

Still, it really doesn't matter where all the pictures were taken... its what the images imply.
 
#123 ·
I can't add a lot. Just this,, the Local DNR Unit Manger was not aware of the C&D event/photo shoot. I do know he expressed a fair degree of interest in obtaining the magazine.. and said; if he believed, after viewing the photos, that the issue needed to be passed along to Law Enforcement, he would do so.

I can also state from past experience, he doesn't care to blind sided by questionable activity occurring in his unit. While he has tried to help the 4x4 community when he can, Pat Hallfrisch is a stickler for abiding by the rules and the regulations. At this juncture, thats the best I can tell you.
 
#126 ·
This is what I sent... Has anyone heard back from their letters?

Dear Editor(s),

I would like to voice my concern over the pictures you show in the recent magazine article on the $25,000 soft roaders. Many of these pictures show wheeling that appears to be illegal in the state of Michigan. Our trails in this state have been getting closed for years because of the uninformed, irresponsible wheelers out there. Though they are the minority it is hurting those of us fighting to keep our trails open, especially those trails that actually need four wheel drive in this state. Now I pick up Car and Driver only to see what appears to be illegal wheeling across the pages. This encourages people new to the hobby to try and do the same when they visit our state, and is very irresponsible.

Driving on beaches and in closed areas while fun and making for a good photo is not legal here. As an avid enthusiast that helps fight to keep our trails open it horrifies me that these pictures have made it into a national publication. This puts the offending pictures out nationally so we have to fight even more people from trying to close what little land we have left to utilize. If you had a guide, I would encourage you to research who you are hiring to guide you a little better, and ensure they have the credentials and knowledge to take you around the area that you would like to go. While Michigan is supposedly a recreation state, it is already very unfriendly toward the ORV/OHV crowd, please in the future do not give them more reasons to continue in that direction. I would like to be able to take my children out on the trails with my old Willys or even my YJ. The way things are already heading this may not be a possibility in the future. I would encourage you to print a retraction, or some sort of article explaining that you do not encourage illegal wheeling, nor do you condone your own actions. I would also encourage you to point readers toward the Tread Lightly organization, United Four Wheel Drive Association, Great Lakes Four Wheel Drive Association, or the Blue Ribbon Coalition as a place to see how to properly use their ORV's/OHV's out on the trails.

Thank you for your time.

J. Meganck.
Owosso, Mi
 
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