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Was This Legal Or Not !!!!

6K views 54 replies 18 participants last post by  Roadhouse 
#1 ·
SOME PIC.. OF PEOPLE RIPING UP TRAILS :woot:

BUT THE QUESTION IS WAS IT LEGAL:confused:



 
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#2 · (Edited)
Without a caption indicating this was taken in a designated ORV area, and without seeing any orange triangles designating ORV Route;
Rule #1 would apply. If you can't drive it in a 2WD passenger style vehicle it's illegal.
Remember, anyone that looks at the pictue will look at it from their own point of view. That's how things get taken out of context.
So where was it at?
jim-kb8ymf
 
#5 · (Edited)
You've just proved my point.:poke:
It's these kinds of pictures that the greenies use against us. I know it's difficult to not post pictures of places you've been and the fun you've had without leaving the door wide open for those who are out to get us.
Do I have tyo ultimate answer, NOPE, Do I have a suggestion, YEP. We should try whenever we post to qualify the picture or video as to when and where it was at. i.e. Trail jurisdiction
95Geo also makes a good point, As an example where this has happened, the Gladwin trails were, or still are closed due to travelling down them trail makes it worse. In the DNR's eyes, if you don't leave the trail in much the same way you found it, they could cite you for 'driving in an errosive manner'
jim-kb8ymf
 
#7 ·
Yup, you are right on the button IMO. At one time, we had some discussion about trying to get permission to play in area "temporarily" right before/after a logging operation because it would have zero impact. But, we all know what the answer would be.

Your pic reminds me of an area we went thru in Canada a couple years back. They had put in a road at least 75 feet across and it was clear cut 200 feet wide FOR MILES.


Money talks.
 
#15 ·
.....the only thing I was getting at, is the typical "shock" value that is portrayed with pictures like that. Lumber companies are stereotyped just like ORV operators. They are bad, bad, bad, according to a certain group in this country, and I don't know if you are one from this group or not, nor do I care as long as you quantify the picture.

Just because an area is clear cut, for a road, or harvest,.........does not mean the World is coming to an end.
 
#16 ·
alright ford ur taking it way out of context all these people were saying is that they cant believe that a forest company can fall a whole forest but orv's cant go on a trail if its to muddy.... they werent saying that forest companys are bad everyone needs paper they are just pointing out that the system is wacked.
 
#17 ·
RBB, if you dont know, as much as your on here whats right or wrong, then you need to find something else to do in your life. I dont know you and i usually dont speak up, but most things you do and say on here are just ignorant, I'm sorry if I offend you, but with everything going on right now with the legality and issues concerning illegal wheeling, and you post pics!
 
#32 ·
I WAS JUST BRINGING TO LIGHT HOW HYPOCRITICAL SOME OF THESE GLFWDA GUYS ARE !!!! THEY ARE THE FIRST TO STAND UP AND BITCH WHEN SOMEONE IS OUT WHEELING, BUT THESE PIC. CAME FROM ONE OF THERE SPONSORED EVENTS ON PUBLIC LAND :woot:
















DONT GET ME RONG GLFWDA DOES GOOD THINGS FOR THIS SPORT BUT WHEELING IS WHEELING !!!! IT IS EROSIVE BUY NATURE :poke: IN MY EYES THIS HOLE THING IS LIKE BOW HUNTERS BITCHING ABOUT GUN HUNTERS, WHEN THEY ARE BOTH HUNTERS :miff: TRYING TO ENJOY THE SAME SPORT :beerbang:
 
#28 ·
I just read some on the DNR's website about this. We could be in trouble.

"While viewing the ORV damage, employees from the Cadillac FMU answer questions that are fired at them by the internal audit team. When was the damage first discovered? How can you remedy it? Why are the ORV riders doing this? Each question is handled by an employee, his or her response carefully evaluated by Rockwell. Rockwell will be present at the actual audits, assisting DNR employees with “push back” on the auditors’ probing questions about forest management issues. He also will help formulate remedies for particular deficiencies identified in the audit."
 
#34 · (Edited)
OK, Time to make some claifications. This particular trail is called "Legrand" and it is a trail that was reviewed with the Indian River DNR and "approved". The trail was then ridden with the Trolls after the event to confirm that no one had gotten off of the trail.

In fact, when I wanted to divert around one of the ruttier areas, I was told by the trail leader that the DNR would prefer us to go through the ruts rather than create new ruts as a "bypass". This is no different than what was done on Drummond Island by MSG at the claypits. The only reason the clay pits are closed down was because of too many people going around them and creating bypasses.

In addition, the DNR will allow a variation to the laws under a special events permit, which this was.


Now, for all of you who don't know, let me explain what happened with RBB on this run that created a bad image for all of us. On Friday night, the Trolls offer a night run. I was at the back of this run and RBB was in the middle of the pack. As the group was turning left off of a paved road onto a gravel road, there were cars sitting at the stop sign on the gravel road waiting for all of us.

RBB, in his assenine way, decided to do a power turn in front of the cars. He lost control and slid sideways into the ditch literally beside the cars sitting at the stop sign. WAY TO SHOW RESPONSIBLE WHEELING.

He continued to drive like a jackass throughout the run until he was reprimanded at least once.

The next day, Vic Brasseur, president of the Trolls pulled RBB aside and told him that the other participants of the run expressed a dislike of his driving and he was told that if he didn't tone it down, he would not be allowed on the rest of the run.

The following year, the Trolls decided to cancel the Spring Opener and asked that no one come to Indian River on the usual weekend so as to not create issues with the DNR.

RBB replied that "it was his constitutional right to go where ever he dam well pleased" and "no one was going to tell him what to do".

So, there you have it.......... somebody once again trying to create issues where it doesn't need to be.

Jim
 
#36 ·
OK, Time to make some claifications. This particular trail is called "Legrand" and it is a trail that was reviewed with the Indian River DNR and "approved". The trail was then ridden with the Trolls after the event to confirm that no one had gotten off of the trail.

In fact, when I wanted to divert around one of the ruttier areas, I was told by the trail leader that the DNR would prefer us to go through the ruts rather than create new ruts as a "bypass". This is no different than what was done on Drummond Island by MSG at the claypits. The only reason the clay pits were closed down was because of too many people going around them and creating bypasses.

In addition, the DNR will allow a variation to the laws under a special events permit, which this was.


Now, for all of you who don't know, let me explain what happened with RBB on this run that created a bad image for all of us. On Friday night, the Trolls offer a night run. I was at the back of this run and RBB was in the middle of the pack. As the group was turning left off of a paved road onto a gravel road, there were cars sitting at the stop sign on the gravel road waiting for all of us.

RBB, in his assenine way, decided to do a power turn in front of the cars. He lost control and slid sideways into the ditch literally beside the cars sitting at the stop sign. WAY TO SHOW RESPONSIBLE WHEELING.

He continued to drive like a jackass throughout the run until he was reprimanded at least once.

The next day, Vic Brasseur, president of the Trolls pulled RBB aside and told him that the other participants of the run expressed a dislike of his driving and he was told that if he didn't tone it down, he would not be allowed on the rest of the run.

The following year, the Trolls decided to cancel the Spring Opener and asked that no one come to Indian River on the usual weekend so as to not create issues with the DNR.

RBB replied that "it was his constitutional right to go where ever he dam well pleased" and "no one was going to tell him what to do".

So, there you have it.......... somebody once again trying to create drama where it doesn't need to be.

Jim


THANKS FOR FILLING US IN !!!!!!!:thumb:

YES IT WAS MY FIRST TRIP INTO THE WOODS WITH SENIOR CITIZENS :sonicjay: AND YES I RAN AROUND LIKE A JACKASS WITH A FULL TANK OF GAS:rock: DID I GET " A TALKING " TO BUY THE ELDERS FOR HAVING FUN.....YES .......IS THAT WHY I TRAILERED 4 HOURS NORTH FOR THE WEEKEND ......YES ..... WERE THEY RUNNING ON TRAILS THAT BUY LAW WERE NOT PASSABLE WITH A 2X4 ......YES ...... DID THE DNR TELL OUR TRAIL LEADER TO BREAK THE LAW .... I DONT KNOW .....

I HEARED STORYS THAT THE NEXT YEAR A GROUP OF RIGS HAD A BLAST RUNNING AROUND THOSE WOODS WITH NO TROUBLE
 
#35 ·
RBB,
A few things you need to understand before you start accusing folks of wrongdoings without knowing or understand the facts.

1. The pictures came from an event which was operated under an EVENT PERMIT. Event permits are specific permission given by the DNR to a group to travel on specific forest roads. This permission is frequently given to many groups, GLFWDA, TROLLS, MSG and the DOA run, SWAMPSTOMPERS for their Super Duper run a few years back, MUDCHUGGERS and SNO-BLIND, SOFO and SNO-FARI and even JEEP JAMBOREE. Ordaniarilly you would NOT be able to travel these roads BUT, with permission from the DNR you are allowed to. That's what a permit does for you.

2. Travel down forest roads which ordainarily would be possible during dry conditions but is hampered due to weather related (i.e. snow or flooded) IS allowed to use 4WD to travel safely.
The DNR has spelled this out in an official letter which we had printed in the Boondocker a few years back.

In either case I don't see there to be a violation as you allude to.

My question to you is; what is it that your trying to accomplish with this accusation? GLFWDA has always promoted responsible 4 wheeling. We have done our best, when we've know about violation, to educate users. The problem comes with so many jurisdictional agencies involved, and a law that is selectively applied in some cases. Trying to give all the users the knowledge to know what is right and wrong.
Jim-kb8ymf
 
#37 ·
OH SNAP RBB They laid it down on you didn't they?

I was thinking before I even got to white rhino and kb8myf's posts that typically when teh GLFWDA holds an event on public land they get an approval or a permit from the DNR.

The GLFWDA is in our best interest and takes precautions PRIOR to wheeling to help the sport, not AFTER they do something as "damage control"

Come on RBB quit trying to stir the pot and realize theses guys are trying to help the sport that YOU enjoy while simultaneously enjoying the sport themselves.
 
#38 ·
I was thinking before I even got to white rhino and kb8myf's posts that typically when teh GLFWDA holds an event on public land they get an approval or a permit from the DNR.

The GLFWDA is in our best interest and takes precautions PRIOR to wheeling to help the sport, not AFTER they do something as "damage control"
Well put. Thanks also for explaining things white rhino and kb.
 
#48 ·
Didnt RBB also get his a** chewed for driving off the trail during spring opener? Seems like I heard he went into an area with cattails on purpose. It was Bob from MSG who done the chewing.

Sounds like your retarded RBB, way to stir the shit and have it backfire on you!

It's funny how you and I first met at a GLFWDA meet and greet at a BW3's and you wanted to help GLFWDA and you seemed genuine and personable. Now you are on the bandwagon against the memebrship and trying to slander our good name. Why I ask? Who shit in your wheeties?
 
#52 ·
and then you make an ass of yourself with comments like this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by drummond
I know this probably isnt the right forum for this, but we all know that it will get the most views here...and this is a MAJOR problem.

I just received an email from Steve Walker, who is the President of the Drummond Island Offroad Club. This is concerning serious illegal 4x4 use on Drummond Island out in the Maxton Plains. I have no idea who was apart of this, but I hope that they know that this is the sort of behavior that will get 4x4's removed from the island, from the DNR and locals alike.


Steve's Email

Pat Hallfrisch, the DNR Forrest Unit Manager for the Eastern Upper Peninsula, has asked if I would forward this letter and the attached pictures to those of you I've included ..... Hoping you will help spread the word on the various forums how important it is that as a user group, (Full Sized 4x4's) we all stay away from the Maxton Plains... This type of damage shown in the photos is the quickest way I know of to Ban all full sized ORV's from Drummond Island... In over 20 years of wheeling this island,, I have never seen this kind of total disregard for the environment. Please help spread the word that if this type of damage continues, everyone can count on extremely focused efforts by the island residents and environmentalists to close the island to full size rides


Steve Walker
President, Drummond Island Off-Road Club


HERE IS THE DNR EMAIL


The attached images were taken by our Wildlife Biologist just a few short days ago and the scenes depicted make it difficult for land managers to defend the legitimate use of ORVs. What makes these pictures truly sad is that they were taken on the Maxton Plains of Drummond Island where the land is unusually delicate, there are many rare plant species AND the area is nowhere near any of our ORV trails. Some are even on private property.

Over the span of many years I have witnessed countless well organized and managed ORV events. There have also been numerous public projects that you folks have put together or participated in on the island in conjunction with your family oriented events. These have ranged from picking up trash along the trails and below the cliff at Marble Head to removing old car bodies on state land to holding raffles and donating the proceeds to replace island fire and ambulance equipment. I also know there has been support provided to scouting, Big Brothers/Big Sisters and to the local Lions Club by Off Roaders. Along with the good deeds associated with your events it is common knowledge that you have made it know to participants and members of your clubs that the Maxton Plains are a unique and fragile ecosystem, a real treasure, so I am confident that no members of your organizations would indulge in the sort of mis-behavior depicted in the photos. If all of these good things are being done why did I send the imagery? Quite simply, we need help and I feel you folks, being long standing and respected members of the ORV community, might be in position to provide it.

Next time a newsletter goes out from your organization(s) would you please emphasize again that trail use is not a problem but off trail use is? Could you emphasize the we have close to 60 miles of back roads on the Island open to quads and full sized vehicles that are there for the enjoyment of legitimate, law abiding users? Word of mouth is good too. your member might be able to convince others who are not part of organized groups to clean up their act. Reminding your members to let us know if they notice illegal activity on the Maxton would really help too. If their cell phones don't work over there they can get descriptions, license numbers, date and time, etc. maybe even a photo or two, and we will do what we can from there.

As you all know I am always open to ideas that might help curb the activity of those who make legal users look bad. No need to give the anti's ammunition in any attempt to close down all trails on the island because a few people are damaging a truly unique, globally rare, ecosystem.

Ideas or suggestions on how to make things better should be sent to me by e-mail, hallfrip@michigan.gov or call me at 906-635-6161. Thinking out of the box is certainly encouraged. If any of you have contact with other Michigan off road enthusiasts not associated with your groups please feel free to pass on my request for input.

If we need to all sit down and brainstorm either over coffee at the Bear Track or formally at the town hall I am open to that too. Thanks, Pat







This is a serious issue guys, and this is the type of stuff the DNR uses against us, especially on one of the only places in Michigan that is fun to wheel. This could possibily lead to trail closures and a dislike of fullsize 4x4's on the island. The Maxton Plains are a protected area, and have been that way for many many years. Many people enjoy going out there just for nature....and then they see this. It isnt good for our public image







WELL THAT SUCKS !!!!

BUT WHAT DO THEY EXPECT !!! WHEN THESE ASSHATS KEEP SHUTTING DOWN LEGAL PLACES TO WHEEL !!!! OF COURSE PEOPLE WILL HEAD OFF THE TRAIL
 
#53 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyJ
No doubt. If they want to be big bad mudders, run down to the clay pits.

Clay pits are officially closed because dip shits kept making bypasses and the trail kept getting wider and wider, then when it couldn't get any wider because fo the trees, they cut them down and made more bypasses.

IF CORSE IT IS F###ED UP !!!!! BUT IT IS WHAT IT IS :(

CLOSE THE CLAY PITS AND PEOPLE WILL MAKE NEW ONES !!!!

I DID NOT DO IT!!!! BUT OTHERS HAVE AND WILL





PAT I WILL GET TO YOU WHEN I HAVE MORE TIME
 
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