Originally Posted by Todd
Ok, I think its time for me to chime in now.
Iím the new V.P. of the MTU Four Wheelers for 2007-2008. And I have a few things to add and ask.
First, boy scout is on CFA land. I believe its commercial forest association or something like that. The logging companies own it but in order to not pay taxes on the land they must keep it open to the public for any form of traffic. Either foot or motor. This only applies when it is not being logged, as soon as they start cutting in an area they can close it down. This is the case of boy scout. So my first question, as most of the land we wheel is CFA land does this no spin tires rule still apply?
Second, our club gets a lot of local complaints for things we have never done. Its just easier to target an organized club to pin shit on then blame the actual culprits. I will say, yes we have spun our tires on boy scout in the past wheelin it while it was open. But it was needed to traverse the trail and get through under your own power. As many of the other trails we run spinning the tires is needed to keep forward movement. So I guess according to this 2 wheel law or rule anything that you want to wheel must be able to be traveled by a 2 wheel drive? I know you could never have gotten a 2 wheel drive down boy scout, so we should have never been there? I was an open trail, run by many of both MTU students and locals. Also many of the other trails we run you could never make it down with a 2 wheel drive, so we cant be there either? If these areas can not be run then I donít see much wheelin here in the Keweenaw that can be done legally. We donít have scramble areas. If I pick trails to run that are accessible by a 2 wheel drive then we are not wheelin. As soon as you start spinning the tires, do you pull cable?
Im at a loss here. Seems this sport cant go on any longer in our area with all the shit that has been hitting the fan. This issue we are discussing as well as others in the Keweenaw.
I question for all reading this thread. Have you ever spun your tires on land that was not on an ORV park, or any of these areas in question besides water areas? I find it hard to believe no one has.
I thought the wheelin we did was legal, but apparently what I thought was wheelin is busting the rules. And real wheelin in MI is 2 wheelin. More info on this topic of CFA land and tires being spun would be great as I donít want to take the club places we should not be.
This thread is getting into the real heart of our issues in Michigan. I am sure there are tons of still pics and videos of folks getting their rigs muddy. Common sense would say that an old forest road that has been around for 40 years should be OK to drive down. Unfortunately, it flat out IS NOT LEGAL if you could not drive down it with Mom's grocery getter.
We have all (including me) tried to put a different spin on it, sugar coat it or whatever. But if you review the law (which kb8ymf linked above), it clearly says 2 things that pretty much sum it up.
1) it must be traversable by a conventional 2 wheel drive vehicle. The DNR interprets this as a showroom grocery getter.
2) You can not operate in an erosive manner. This is highly subject to interpretation by the local officer. If he thinks you are tearing it up, you get a ticket.
Asking about pulling cable: Nope, don't pull cable. Why? Because the showroom floor grocery getter doesn't come standard with a winch. If you have to winch, you don't belong there.
We consistently hear that the UP is treated different than the LP. Probably true but doesn't change the law.
Keep in mind that by the definition of the law, Uncle Harry driving his farm truck out to his favorite deer blind on state land it technically illegal. But up to this point, we haven't heard much about that happening. It is mostly the guys with lifted rigs, tires & such that catch the eye of the DNR.
Want to do a little research? Look into the impact that the new "forest certification" is doing.
Private timber land? Sure they have to keep it open. But I would believe that the roads there are still subject to state laws. Back to the grocery getter.
All of us would like to think that we can still drive the forest roads that require 4 wheel drive. I don't know how to get the attention of folks to realize that it is flat out gone! And with only 300 or so members of "the only group that represents full size users at the government level in Michigan", our numbers are just not strong enough to be heard.
And then everyone wants to know why we can't get anthing accomplished.