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Old February 15th, 2007, 07:57 AM   #1
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Default Our super-secret and anonymous representative council

I copied this from my original post in a thread that got off-topic; so that Trail Fanatic didn't take that fact and use same as an excuse from answering thee very pointed and legitimate questions concerning our sport below.

Here is the exchange that has yet to receive a reply:

Originally posted by

"Therf's nothing super-secret about the MMRC.
I serve on it as a representative of the over 50" ORV class.

Sir (John, is it?),

The world is run by those who show up.
If you don't like the way it's being run, maybe it's time you showed up?
Heaven knows we could use the help.
Complaining doesn't constitute helping, either.
Think long enough to come up with at LEAST one possible solution to each of your problems.
Maybe one will be "THE" one which finally works.

One of the 'rules' (suggestions) of activism I picked up along the way (and like VERY much):

If you don't have a solution to offer,
You don't have a problem to bring up."


(Originally posted by OneManBanned):

Our very first publicly announced council member! (after how many years of silence on every single orv issue brought forward over that very long period of time?).

Are you here to make a statement as to who else serves on this council representing orvs in the state of Michigan and what their collective views are....or have you come across the moat to take a potshot; heave up the drawbridge and return defiantly to the collective fortress?

A couple questions if you don't mind.
I am a long time Rhino owner who certainly had trouble joining the "over 50 inch" folks that at least "I" talked to when my rig first hit the market.
Question #1...wasn't it you and your council who literally bragged about killing the 60" widening bill (House Bill 5343) in less than 26 hours???....):

And if you are indeed Mr. "over 50 inch".....who do I talk to PUBLICLY on this council about the new Polaris RZR and how this innovative manufacturer has literally shoved this groundbreaking machine right on up your collective rear ends after your 'representative council' immediately jumped all over this environmentally sound widening bill brought forward through Representative Hildenbrand and others without public or even orv community commentary?

And as a follow-up....Did you support the notion that widening these trails to 60 inches was indeed 'cost prohibitive'....while at the same time ram-rodding even more mileage through this council and later our legislature? (we show up at our advisory board meeting only to be told that our trails are in disgusting disrepair and should indeed be closed down for 'study'...yet the next thing you know....Polaris is getting their teeth kicked out over establishing the correct width needed to actually MAINTAIN these trails correctly with decent equipment! (while yet even more trails are ADDED with absolutely no public discussion whatsoever as to the actually funding of ANY of this new mileage).

And excuse me, if indeed "there (is) nothing 'super-secret' about the MMRC...."
....then how in the heck did 'ol "blackballed" below (myself) get both his name and signature?

"...Sir (John, is it?),

The world is run by those who show up.
If you don't like the way it's being run, maybe it's time you showed up?..."

How many MORE times would you like me to "show up"...and how do my appearances "showing up" compare with 99% of the folks out there who have never made a trip to Lansing or maybe never even hosted youth training sessions out of their own damn pockets?
How would you like "showing up" after driving all the way to Lansing....and then be rudely shouted down; lied to and gaveled out the door before your alloted time to publicly speak was over with?

"Show up"....why don't YOU show up when it comes time to answer the tough questions that I've brought forward on this board to date...instead of taking the simpleton 'attack' route like every other arrogant and anonymous member of the council that you sit on with a bag over your head?

"...Heaven knows we could use the help..."

What help????

'Help' in bashing every orv user out there who comes up with a legitimate question directed towards representative 'leaders' that they can't even contact without spending several years attempting to determine who they even ARE or what they are in effect telling others as to what 'we' want?

Where in the heck were you when I needed "help" in getting the damn orv advisory board to meet as scheduled right smack dab in the middle of the single most important period in Michigan's orv history?
How about 'help' in forcing the DNR to publish the damn meeting minutes a full 8 weeks after that?
Or was "Mr. over 50 inch" so far 'in the know' during this critical time period....that us mere peons out here with no bag to put over our head ....weren't really a 'concern' in regards to even the most basic of tenants involving procedural protocol and our right to be heard as citizens of this state??

"...Complaining doesn't constitute helping, either...."

You know something, Trail Fanatic...I'll complain any time I DAMN WELL LIKE when it comes to you and your MMRC 'buddies' supposedly representing me for all these years without so much as even a meeting minutes published and literally tens of millions now on the line affecting MY resource.
How such a flat out arrogant attitude such as yours can be so wide-spread in this community is certainly beyond me; yet your failure to tackle even ONE of the tough questions raised since I've had the pleasure of joining this forum; tells me that 'silence' is about all we're going to indeed receive from 'leaders' such as yourself while these millions do indeed get spent .

"...Think long enough to come up with at LEAST one possible solution to each of your problems.
Maybe one will be "THE" one which finally works...."

Here you are avoiding every damn question about the problems themselves.....effectively BLOCKING every single discussion designed to dig away at the root of our problems while offering solutions at the same time...and all you've got for a 'comeback' is that each one of these is MY problem not 'worthy' of your input!

I mean, really TF....doesn't the above statement almost DEFINE the arrogance I've been describing here in almost graphic detail???
Can you possibly GET any more look-down-your-nose than that...or are you simply 'warming up'?

"....One of the 'rules' (suggestions) of activism I picked up along the way (and like VERY much):

If you don't have a solution to offer,
You don't have a problem to bring up...."

Which is the biggest bunch of fluff politico spin ever thought up and one that has been used by rank amateur politicians for years.

99.9% of the folks bringing any issue before ANYBODY damn well possess a solution in mind and aren't a bit 'afraid' to tell you about it....IF GIVEN THE CHANCE TO DO SO.

What usually gets in the way of these good folks ACTUALLY ACCOMPLISHING THIS; is, again, 'spin meisters' like yourself continually attempting to divert any and all attention away from the subject at hand.
Want an example?
How about all the very simple and direct questions asked previously (there must be 'fifty' good ones by now)....with nothing but a claim by you that absolutely no solutions can be found in either the questions themselves or god forbid the massive amount of text put forth to date indeed explaining how we need to fix what is broken.

If you want to act like the rest of these guys and re-direct everything thrown at you with well worn out politico 'sayings'...have at it.

Yet I believe there are a few on this board who understand the facts brought forward to date here whether I get kicked off of this forum before explaining them further or not.

I don't like talking to long-respected members of these forums like this, believe this crap has gone on for far to long and it must stop before our kids lose any further interest in getting involved in these issues.
If these young people have to work even half as hard as I have had to in wading through the cast of condescending characters standing in their way on these issues...who in the heck here believes that they will ever pick up even one of them and run with it???

--------------------------------------------------------------------------Originally posted by:


Originally Posted by Trail_Fanatic
"Therf's nothing super-secret about the MMRC.

Then 'Google' these anonymous bastards operating as our supposed voice for YEARS now and pay special attention to the heading "Concerns of trail riders delay changes in ORV rules...".

Now tell me something Mr. "over 50 inch"....what in the heck machine do these goofs want 'banned' if they are not indeed regulated in WHAT manner?

And are you in possesssion of some kind of holier-than-thou 'proclamation' from these arrogant arses regarding the further use of my machine or god forbid the Polaris RZR that we here in the overall orv community are presently unaware of?

What's next?

You and your anonymous buddies working hard into the night on seeking to 'ban' this grounbreaking machine from the 50" trails also?

Seems to me that as our side-byu-side 'representative' SURELY should have all manner of commentary regarding this new product that Polaris finally and thankfully shoved right back up your rear ends when you slammed the door in both their and OUR faces here in Michigan.(sorry, but in the less than 26 hours it took to kill this thing...NOT A 'PEON' MEMBER OF THIS ORV COMMUNITY EITHER KNEW ABOUT THIS BILL OR RECEIVED EVEN A FAIR OPPORTUNITY TO SO MUCH AS COMMENT ON SAME....AND YOU DAMN WELL KNOW IT).

So now that you've Googled this 100% out-in-the-open represenative council that you're "Mr. over 50 inch" many and what references do you find explaining exactly what they or you believe in (beyond feel good politico speak) and more importantly...can you ascertain just HOW they are representing us with all these 10's of millions of dollars now on the line?

Originally posted by OneManBanned:

Adding to the comment above regarding our community representative's suggestion to ban these 'new' machines (not motorcycles obviously) or definitely by gosh further regulate their there somebody on your super-secret council addressing Mr. Moll's pressing issue here (page 4) immediately before the last orv advisory board meeting adjourned?

Is it your job Mr "over 50 inch" to contact both the NOHVCC and the CPSC (and I'd like to know who in the heck suggested that course of action to brush this inexplainable outburst quickly under the rug ) regarding Mr. Moll's insistence that something by gosh be done about this???

...and Michigan orv enthusiasts have allowed this guy's term to expire in December without so much as a 'peep' from ANYBODY in the orv community......for exactly what reason?

Yeah, we need one of the few true orv representives we have on that board writing letters to Polaris, Yamaha and the all the other manufacturers out there as to how they should damn well build their products.

And you guys expect that we should all just 'leave it up to you' and certainly quit asking these pesky questions as to just who represents us or what they have to say in meetings with others even more important to this sport?

Last edited by OneManBanned; February 15th, 2007 at 09:23 AM.
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