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Old November 2nd, 2013, 08:25 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by opie View Post
I see what you are getting at...... The problem as I see it, taking your question at face value, is its one of those questions where the only real, easy, right answer is God. Because Christians believe that we are all flawed by design, so we can not inherently be moral people without Gods hand.

However, there are millions of people around the world who do lead moral lives without Gods guidance. Whether or not those folks have to be moral is irrelevant. Its an interesting question and conversation topic, but at the end of the conversation, there will still be 2 camps.
I actually believe that those that are 'moral' sans God are still images of God (we all are, if you're not coming from my previous 'accident' stance) and because of that we inherently have his traits in us. Believer or not. The Caveat to this thinking, though, is that when we are final judged those who do not believe will be separated from God. Including those attributes that are seen within us.

Well, Obviously Im right.

All seriousness aside, I don't look at my own personal morality code as "American" morals. Every American has a different standard that they conduct themselves in. My viewpoint comes from a direction of common respect and decency. I also think there are some blurred lines being crossed here between morals and religious doctrine.

Womens equal rights... Unfortunately thats not a good example. Most of the countries that do not view woman as equals are countries whos governments are run primarily by religion. Our Founders were intelligent enough to be able to practice their own faith, but not set in stone a Government that is based on the same foundation. They protected our basic, fundamental rights and left the rest to the states.
Even they didn't live in a world were women or slaves had rights. But I see your point and your right, religious run countries are most of those countries. Good call.

Does it really matter if anyone will remember your name in 500 years? What matters is how you conduct yourself while alive, not how your legacy will be viewed.
Nope. That's my point though. This thinking can go both ways. Either you live a life of respect and treating your fellow man well (I'm for this one BTW) or you live your life immoral and enjoy the ride when you can.

Either way it's meaningless unless you focus on what is beyond this life. Which, as you have probably figured out, is my point.

Well, I have 2 answers...

First is, why wouldn't you? Would you really be willing to sell yourself short simply because you were put here on accident?

Second, we folks that choose to not follow a God are not lost. I believe this is the logical end to the condition you are setting up. Yes, if someone has lost all their drive and determination, they could simply give up and stop trying. Many times non believers are classified as lost by religious folk. Clearly if that's what religious folk truly believe, then I can see why non believers having the will and determination to still be good people doesn't make sense.

I think the more likely reason is a lack or parental involvement.
It's not that it doesn't make sense, the paragarph earlier kind of explains my thinking on this. I'm definately not one of those Christians that nonbelievers are immoral, no matter what. Quite the opposite. I know better.

I know. This is a serious discussion, all attempts at humor must cease and desist.

Originally Posted by Ebs View Post
If god created all of us, and his morals are one of those creations, shouldn't we all abide by those morals whether we believe in god or not? Being they are so ingrained in his perfect-the-second-time-around design. Or is there some kind of windows update for the human that doesn't install his morals until he has deemed you acceptable.
Free will. <pop, a rush of air> Oh, look a can of worms. .

It's very easy to see, due to the apparent hypocracy of the church, that this thinking is right. Jesus said it him self when he talked about the sick needing a doctor and not the well needing one.

I also think this thread indicates that even those that don't believe still follow a set of morals that they aren't entirely sure of the origins of. They just know it's right or wrong.

Originally Posted by amc78cj7 View Post
29 - 6. We are spartans!
I'm glad you kept us updated! Go Green! I'm a fan of both teams (I know, one of the more out there claims I've made on this forum) but Michigan didn't even show up. The Spartans deserved that win and the pure joy that bashing probably brought to thier green little hearts.
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