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Old November 2nd, 2013, 12:13 PM   #116
opie
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Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
Then who/what does?
The moral person?

I see what you are getting at...... The problem as I see it, taking your question at face value, is its one of those questions where the only real, easy, right answer is God. Because Christians believe that we are all flawed by design, so we can not inherently be moral people without Gods hand.

However, there are millions of people around the world who do lead moral lives without Gods guidance. Whether or not those folks have to be moral is irrelevant. Its an interesting question and conversation topic, but at the end of the conversation, there will still be 2 camps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
Ah, but you're expressing American morals as morals that should apply to everyone. Do you see what I'm getting at? There are still countries that do not look at women as equals in thier rights. Thier morals would not agree with yours. So who's right?
Well, Obviously Im right.

All seriousness aside, I don't look at my own personal morality code as "American" morals. Every American has a different standard that they conduct themselves in. My viewpoint comes from a direction of common respect and decency. I also think there are some blurred lines being crossed here between morals and religious doctrine.

Womens equal rights... Unfortunately thats not a good example. Most of the countries that do not view woman as equals are countries whos governments are run primarily by religion. Our Founders were intelligent enough to be able to practice their own faith, but not set in stone a Government that is based on the same foundation. They protected our basic, fundamental rights and left the rest to the states.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
Hypothectically let's say we can't. It's some kind of force that we have to be, in this time and age, immoral to defend. What do we do then? Do we decide to do the immoral thing and by doing so condoning the action?
Its not immoral to defend yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
I don't think he's the answer to everything that can't be explained at all. I think he may have given answers to things that cannot be explained but not the epitome of 'the asnwer'.
Take the conversation we are having now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
I think I learned the bubble of single celled organisms thing from a DVD series about our planet. A scientist may see that as an accident but I see it as a perfect plan played out by a creator.
I do not buy into the accident viewpoint. I think we are all byproducts of evolution through our environment. Both physical and mental.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
Not really, I'm looking at it from a Christian stand point in that I beleive morals are shaped and given to us by God and that those that do not believe in God, theoretically, don't have to have morals (or at least the morals given to us by God).
This goes back to "God is the answer" statement I made earlier. No one, theoretically, has to have morals. Yours are shaped around your belief in your religion. Mine are shaped around a respect for my fellow man. So perhaps I should call my religion "Mutual Respect."

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Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
My stance is based in one that we're all accidents so what does it matter what we do to each other. In 500ish years, no one will remember us anyways.
Does it really matter if anyone will remember your name in 500 years? What matters is how you conduct yourself while alive, not how your legacy will be viewed.

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Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
Isn't Self respect a set of morals in and of it's self?
Absolutely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
Why should i care about me, or anyone else, if I'm an accident. (I don't really think that, but I'm trying to get a point across.)
Well, I have 2 answers...

First is, why wouldn't you? Would you really be willing to sell yourself short simply because you were put here on accident?

Second, we folks that choose to not follow a God are not lost. I believe this is the logical end to the condition you are setting up. Yes, if someone has lost all their drive and determination, they could simply give up and stop trying. Many times non believers are classified as lost by religious folk. Clearly if that's what religious folk truly believe, then I can see why non believers having the will and determination to still be good people doesn't make sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
The thinking I'm portraying, IMO, could be a pretty good reason for teen suicide rates rising in our country.
I think the more likely reason is a lack or parental involvement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
That was more of a joke. .
I know. This is a serious discussion, all attempts at humor must cease and desist.
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