Originally Posted by mikesova
Can anyone give me a reason to believe in Christianity that couldn't be also be used as a reason to believe in Islam? i.e. you can't change a few words (but keep the same argument) and use it to justify a belief in any other religion?
I ask, because, I have a feeling most Christians in America, are Christian, because Christianity has been a more popular religion in America and it has been passed down from family member to family member.
Because Christianity is the only mainstream religion where God comes to us, his creation, to make what we did to him right. Any other Mainstream religion that has a heaven or hell or some form of afterlife requires the believer to try work thier way to thier eternal place in 'heaven'.
Originally Posted by GreaseMonkey
Arguing the bible with Christians is a lost effort. They use it a la carte style to fit their personal beliefs, religious beliefs, or church's beliefs. And honestly, it's really no different than us heathen non-believers picking out the other stuff.
That's funny because every time I use scripture in my arguements I make sure it's in context and could read you the whole chapter, and if you had the time, the whole book and show you what it means.
That line of thinking is also pretty flawed when you take into account, which I don't expect you to because you probably don't know, that there are countless pastors that do what is called 'preaching through the bible'. This is where they will start at Mark 1 and go all the way through the book. Preaching every text that is in the book, explaining how it fits into the entirety of the bible. My pastor specifically will pick the verses that most Christians tend to shy away from and blow them up to point to the Gospel. He can do this because he has a Doctorate in Biblical studies and knows Hebrew, Greek, and Arabic.
Originally Posted by kickstand
No, the only reason I can not think of a christian as a logical person is because they place faith in something that they can not logically explain with out telling me that if I believed I would understand, or if I read the bible (which I have read many parts of) I would understand, or that the only way I can understand is to be one of gods people, etc.
You are incapable of normal logical discussion. You can not explain your faith in a logical way to a skeptic, you can not understand that it is completely normal and logical for others to have different beleifs (religious or otherwise) and quite frankly you are just proving my point with each and every response you give this thread.
You're asking someone who has faith, which by definition, is the belief in things unseen, to give you logical (I tend to think more tangable) reasons to believe in God. Do you see the flaw in that?
When ever we try and give you reasons for why we believe in God you say we're stupid and ignorant. Do you understand why we may shy away from that?
I'll give it a go. I'll try to stay logical. Bear with me.
I believe what I believe for many reasons. I will be completely honest and say that one of those reasons is because of my up bringing. My dad's a Pastor, I grew up in church. It only makes sense that I would believe in God because of that. However, even in that thinking (hopefully logically thinking still) there is a flaw. A majority of Kids who are 'church' kids loose thier faith when they go away from thier parents. Why is this? More so, why would only certain people not loose thier faith?
My parents have made it abundantly clear that they would accept me if I didn't believe in God. But I still do. Not only that, but I've made plenty of steps of faith on my own that prove, to me, that it is my faith and my faith alone.
I also want to point out that my dad and I often get into debates on theological subjects that we don't match up on. Do you find it odd, with the "well you were raised that way and you're brainwashed" mentality, that I believe differently then my father does?
Anywho, On to why I believe. I have seen, with my own eyes (tangable proof to me), why God is real. For a logical person it would make sense to believe in something they've seen proof for. To a person just as logical who has not seen that proof it would appear as though that person is not logical. This is the major problem with our discussion. This is why we say "we can't really explain it intill you've experienced it".
The thing is, If I told you the ways God has reveled himself to me, they may not work for you. You have to have the experience by yourself and God will tailor fit it to you, where you are, and make it exactly what you need.
I will give you one example. When it comes to skill sets, I'm a mutt. I've had probably close to 15 jobs in my 27 years of life. I've been a grounds keeper, a night janitor, a pizza maker, a light designer, a sound engineer, a IT nerd, a Meijer associate, a set builder, a apprentice in one union, a camp counselor and now I'm a Camp administrator. Most of those jobs just fell into my lap. I didn't strive for them, I didn't play cut throat games to get to them. I've also been offered, at every single one, an open door to come back.
What they've allowed me to become is a sort of jack of all trades for the job that I believe God has Called me to. I believe that God put me in those jobs because he knew exactly what I needed to know to be where I am right now. Do I know everything? No, but I know that God has tailor fit me into the place I am to serve him.
Originally Posted by mikesova
So then, you're kind of saying that trying to use the bible to convert a non-believer wouldn't make much sense, then, right? ...since you just said that you have to already believe it, for it to make sense.
Personally I'm not trying to convert anybody. I'm trying to get you guys to understand why we believe what we believe and how the bible isn't quite as flawed as you (or the skeptics bible) think it may be.