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Old July 4th, 2012, 06:46 AM   #68
opie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WSU JK View Post
We spend the most of any nation on health care and don't have the best outcomes. We are not the best nation when it comes to life expectancy, infant mortality, cancer, diabetes, obesity, heart disease, etc. Something has to be done and I for one think this is a step in the right direction. Personally I would rather see a universal, single-payer system, but any small incremental step is an improvement.
Hard to argue with what you've said above... But it does need some qualifiers....

Money spent includes funds for testing and research. The US does a host of this both publicly and private. Ive no hard number, but Id wager more than other nations combined.

Life expectancy et.al. .... Thats the price we pay for being free. We are sovereign beings and as such we may not make the "right" decisions. But our foundation protects our ability to make that decision freely. This is one of the root issues at hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
I look at is an economic argument. We lose so much money to lost productivity each year because folks who may be working full time but do not have health insurance avoid seeing the doctor when they need to early on and wait until the last minute to go to the ER because they know they will get treated.
With an unemployment rate hovering close to 20%, I don't think missed work is an issue.

There are other Tax payer funded Government options other than showing up at the ER. We do not have a lack of coverage in the US, we have a lack of people utilizing the current system, and simply showing up at the ER.

I agree, preventative medicine is cheaper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
At that point they are utilizing more services than they would have needed to if they would have just being able to get help early on which ends up costing the hospitals, health care organizations, and taxpayers more in the long run. Basically, we are going to end up paying for those who cannot pay for themselves one way or another, I'd rather do it early when it's less expensive, more efficient, and is easier to achieve healthier outcomes.
We do not need to revamp the current system to do that. Its already designed that way. We already pay for those who do not have coverage.

Healthcare costs are rising BECAUSE of Government involvement, not despite of it. Ive heard a few stories where local doctors wanting to provide free care or care at a set rate of $50 a month were closed down by the state for varying reasons. I take serious issue with the free market players coming up with options out of their own pocket and the state shutting them down and turning all the folks they could have helped, back to the gutter.

Side note but related..... How about the cities making it illegal to dispense free food to those that need it? Where are they suppose to go..... Government sanctioned kitchens.

Put simply.. TO MUCH GOVERNMENT. I, and many others, do not want our Government to be involved so deeply into everyones life. Our legislators, who have lost touch with what being an average Joe is all about, seem to think they know best what we need and will make us do it with threat of retaliation from the IRS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
The arguments that nobody is going to want to become a doctor or existing doctors are just going to pack up and head to another country are just downright retarded. First, being a doctor is going to continue to be a very good career and many folks will continue to pursue it because they want to go into the profession because they want to make a difference (the vast majority of them I'm willing to wager).
Go ask a doctor right now how they like dealing with medicare and medicaid. It will not get better. Yes the majority of doctors enter the profession because they want to make a difference, but the reality is when they come out of med school with $100,000 to $200,000 of debt, the new Government dictated rate of pay is going to be an issue.

Which in and of itself, raises an even bigger issue... If the Government wanted to stem the majority of these issues, they would go after Colleges and Universities for their obscene tuition rates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
Second, where are existing doctors who don't like our system going to go to? Any industrialized nation that has patients that can afford to pay their desired fees already has universal healthcare or some sort of government mandated system in place. The nations that don't have that in place don't have the incomes to support the fees the doctors would be leaving here in search of.
Who says they will keep practicing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
As for the "Obama lied! He said this wasn't a tax!" argument - Tax? Fee? Penalty? It's all semantics. You've been paying taxes in the form of "fees" for years. Your license plate renewal fee is a tax. If you pay a fee for a building permit that's a tax.
It is all about semantics when wording laws. Our license fees fund the program. Building permit fees fund the program. Where is the money from healthcare penalties going to go? The original wording of the law was "mandate." It is unconstitutional to require any citizens to purchase anything. That is not the proper role of Government. Hence why you are seeing the right rise up, and Im sure youll see the left rise up soon, about it being passed as a tax. And Roberts essentially rewriting the law for Obama did not help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
Will it be repealed if Romney gets elected? I doubt it. But if that's what our legislators really believe is best, than so be it. Personally, I hope if he does get elected in November and does attempt to repeal it, he offers some sort of replacement at the same time. I'll just have to wait and see.
Please do not be a complacent citizen willing to accept whatever our legislators feel is right and just. If you have convictions towards a particular issue, vote accordingly.

Last edited by opie; July 4th, 2012 at 06:50 AM.
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