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Old November 22nd, 2011, 04:14 AM   #50
opie
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Join Date: 07-21-08
Location: Lansing, MI
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Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
I hope you don't mind if I do reply anyways.
Not at all!!

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Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
Remember I'm not trying to come off judgemental or mean but, according to what I believe, You actually do need God for those traits. He's given them to you. They are traits that his children inherited from him.
I can accept that. But if hes given them to me, I already posses them.

And I don't believe I need him because I can employ those characteristics without him of my own free will. I do, for the most part.

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Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
If heaven is where God resides then it can only be fair to say that hell is a place that lacks God, and His characteristics.
I agree.

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Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
It's not bad, at all, to be good or moral. It's bad, IMO, to think that your morals will get you into heaven or God will think you've done enough. Then we're back at the Kindergartner's drawing.
Getting into heaven is not my motivator to to be a good, moral person. Respect for others is. And as such, I am not "trying" to get into heaven, I am simply being respectful.

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Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
Even if God isn't the personification of the Christian Diety do you really think our standards will meet his (or it's or hers)?
In a general sense, I understand your view on this and I will answer no. My own personal view, Im not worried about it. I treat others they way I want to be treated, both in my personal dealings and by business dealings. If what I am doing it wrong and there is a time when Ill be judged, I know that I have done my best to be a moral person of my own free will and I will take my lumps if given.

But I also believe there is no afterlife, once you're dead, you're dead.

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Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
That being said, I believe that it's not up to me to convince you that you need a relationship with God. Only God can spark that. I hope he does. It sounds like you are a great guy that has an amazing heart for people. That, too, is a gift from God. Good luck, and I'll be praying for you.
I have not reached any of my conclusions based on hearsay or a lack of personal involvement in church. I spent my early years, most of them, involved in a Baptist Church in FL. My family put my brother and I on a bus every Sunday morning and we went to mass and then Sunday School. My wife and I spent a few years at a Methodist church here in Lansing.

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Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
Do you understand the consquences of rejecting God and His free gift?
Now we are going to touch on some of the specific things I find revolting about religion. His "gift" isn't free. It costs money to receive and accept his "gift". The church is much like the Government and the IRS, On one hand the church will say the things you are saying to me, and on the other pass around the offering plate and ask that I support you telling me I'm going to hell if I don't participate. I realize that tithing is not "required." But there are some churches that will take it right from your pay.

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Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
Do you understand what it means to be separated from God for eternity?
Yes, I have accepted my views and do not believe there is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Its just a grassy meadow where I get to lay down and be done.

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Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
Can you wrap your brain around eternity? I can't. But I do know that I would not want to be without Him for eternity.
I can wrap my brain around eternity in the sense of when my time is up, its up. I do not believe in the afterlife.

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Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
You do sound like an inteligent person, don't let that get in your way.
Accepting Jesus is easy and it's a free gift. Just try not to overthink it. As many do.
Thank you. And I do not see my personality as a hindrance to finding anything. I am not, nor have I ever felt like I needed to find God. Perhaps that day will come?? Who knows. My mind is not closed to the idea, but there are to many things that do not sit right with me regarding organized religion.

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Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
I read a quote once and it said," to find God using human wisdom is like searching for the sun with a candle".
I can accept that. If I ever start looking for God, Ill keep it in mind.
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