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Old November 21st, 2011, 06:20 PM   #43
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Join Date: 11-16-07
Location: Hillsdale, MI
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Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
Only if his hair falls out and he gets a bad toupee.
Well, I'm half way there.

Originally Posted by opie View Post
I want to first preface by saying thank you for your thought out, honest replies. Clearly your faith actually means something to you and I respect that. I often generalize when talking about religion and lump everyone into the religious zealot category and I shouldn't.
No problem. I generalize all the time too. For the most part, though, most of my Christian friends feel the same way I do. They are even better at this (explaining my faith) then me. Either way, I enjoy it.

I also appreciate the conversation. I have no problem answering questions/being challanged either.

So what does being with him gain me over not being with him? I'm not talking about any mental state, I mean purely physical. The reason I keep referring back to being a good, moral person is because I am looking for tangible benefits of worshiping over not worshiping. I don't mean it in a materialistic sense..... Just something I can put a value on.... i.e. value to me.
I think i'll address this in a lower paragraph grouped in with some of the other questions.

So its an all or none scenario? Folks that have accepted God can be perfect but the rest of us sinners are keeping them down? Clearly people that worship worship some type of God, so what is keeping them from being perfect?
"I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the father accept through me". John 14:6

It's pretty clear. We're all sinners. Those that accept Christ are made perfect through Christ, in God's sight. He's atoned for the sins we have, and continue to have.

But he wont love me enough to save me unless I accept him into my life, correct?
He loves you enough to send his only son to Die on a cross to atone for your sin. All you have to do is accept that sacrifice. Either way, he loves you, He'll just be extremely sad that you didn't utilize his way to atone for that sin.

I believe this would lead to a state of monotony. Everyone being the same by living the life God has laid out, Gods plan I suppose.
Are you really good at something? Most people are. Usually we, believers or not, gravitate to the gift God has given us. If those gifts were planned by God, who created some pretty complex stuff, how well do you think they'd work together if we could do it, unhindered by sin, together?

The only thing keeping that child's picture out of a fine arts exhibit would be based on a judgement by another human being. I know what you are getting at, just poking at your analogy!!
BUT......The person making that judgement has standards. No matter how badly the kid says 'I believe that what i've drawn is good enough', It still isn't according to that persons standards. I guess to further the Analogy (I've created a monster ) and say that Jesus took everyone's scribbled picture and told God that his perfect picture belonged to all of us.

This kind of goes back to my earlier question... So your standards increased when you accepted God into your life. Why couldn't you have done that without accepting God? I'm not questioning your faith, but asking why your motivator was God and not the want to simply be a better person?
See the lower Paragraph

There is alot going on here, but I simply want to touch one point.... this is all based on the assumption that there is an afterlife. That there is a heaven and hell.
True. Can't argue with that.

I personally am not rejecting Him. I just don't see how accepting him will lead me to be a better person. And after-all, isn't that what the idea is, to eliminate sin? Strive for perfection...
Ok, I'll try to explain this a bit better.

Being perfect is not the goal of the Christian faith. That's just what was accomplished by Christ. The Goal of my faith is to glorify God and have a relationship with God. That can only be done because of our perfection through Christ. We can now have an unhindered relationship with God.

Because my sins have been cleared (my picture has been replaced by a perfect one) I can be free to live for God. I can live and do what God has designed me to do. I don't have to worry about 'being moral' becuase that's not my main concern. Glorifying God is.

Glorifying God brings out the characteristics of God. We call them the fruits of the spirit. Love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness, self control. These are characteristics of God. But These come out of a relationship with God, not a way to get to him.

My Brain is slowly becoming toast at the moment. I need to get some food. I'm sure this will just bring up more questions (which isn't a problem) but I hope it didn't muck up the waters too badly.
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