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Old October 13th, 2011, 08:11 PM   #137
brewmenn
Grumpy old man.
 
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Originally Posted by opie View Post
You keep saying it doesnt matter, but it does. Because where that line falls will be used as a weapon to further class warfare. And the current suggestion is to raise taxes on the wealthy.. Well, whats wealthy? The general consensus among our leaders is either $200 or $250 per year. While I agree thats a boatload of money, I arrive at the conclusion based on my current income level. That may not be but pocket change to someone else. I am fine with a graduated, progressive tax structure. I would prefer something like a consumption/flat/national sales tax, but I am fine with the current structure. I would like to see it simplified but thats another discussion.
I understand exactly what you mean by using it as a weapon. You already tried that once. I refuse to give you that weapon. If it matters so much to you then you decide what is "wealthy". I would not be opposed to raising everyone's taxes.
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Originally Posted by opie View Post
It shouldnt matter at what degree they are doing better, because we should all be treated equally. Even though under just about any tax structure, the rich will pay a smaller percentage of their total income in taxes than the poor, they will still carry the majority of the tax load that ends up in the coffers of the Fed. At least with a simplified tax structure, it will be more difficult for anyone to get out of paying whatever the rate is set at.
This does matter to those folks sitting in that park in New York.
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Originally Posted by opie View Post

The income disparity will never get to those levels, ever. It is feasibly impossible for 1% of the population to earn 99% of the income. Id wager that even the 24% wont last long. It may go up a bit more, but it will eventually tank and even off. Things do that, they swing. Everything swings and we have to stop reacting to the extremes on either side and plan for them in our daily lives.
I would hope it never gets that high, but how high is too high?
Absolutely everything swings back and forth. And the further it swings one way, the further it going the other way. All I'm trying to do it get people to realize just how far it's gone from center.
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Originally Posted by opie View Post
I am aware of past top tax brackets... And I think they were criminal. But in all reality, no one has ever paid anywhere near the top rate because of deductions and exemptions. It would probably surprise you to learn how quickly the income tax in the US went from 1% to 90%, and why it went up so quickly.
Yes, I was surprised to see how fast the income tax rate went up after they started. I don't know the exact reasons. Wars and the depression seemed to have something to do with it but I'm sure there was more to it than that.
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Originally Posted by opie View Post
The war is being lost and the middle class is sliding down because its easier to live off the Government. Ill bet you that the majority of people that fall on hard times and eventually stay down blame someone else for their problems. The people that get back up and keep going dont blame anyone.
I'm sure it happens, but I doubt that there are large numbers of people choosing poverty and the government dole over a middle class lifestyle.
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Originally Posted by opie View Post
Who said that?

I was thinking about this today and I think you are right. Ive gone way OT. First we need to figure out whos rich and what is a fair rate to tax them at.
Nobody said it. I was pulling out the slippery slope argument.

I'd rather figure out how much money the government needs to provide the essential services and then find a fair rate to tax people at to raise that much money.
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Originally Posted by opie View Post
Than its not an accurate guess to assume if one leaves, someone else will step up and take the job.
There a lot of space between anybody and nobody.
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Originally Posted by opie View Post



You mean business that falls under the most amount of Government regulation?
OK, sure.
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Originally Posted by opie View Post
You wouldnt believe the myriad of regulations one needs to jump through to start their own business. Fortunately for me I dont have a storefront, parking, employees etc. I believe alot of folks learn of this and turn around. But yeah... most of your points are right on which brings me to this... If the protestors think they can do it better, rather than expending their energy trying to change the system, use it to get rich like the folks they are protesting against did.
I hadn't even thought about that aspect of it, since I have no desire to start a business. I would be fully supportive of an effort to make it easier for someone to start a business.
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Originally Posted by opie View Post
It would be shortsighted of me to cut my own tree down, wouldnt it? However, Government is on my doorstep telling me I have to cut it down because my neighbor needs firewood.
Yes, it would be stupid for you to cut down your own tree. But if you had an abundance of excess firewood laying around wouldn't it make sense to give some of it to your neighbor before they did cut down your tree to keep warm?
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