Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest - View Single Post - People march on Wall Street-Media Blackout
View Single Post
Old October 13th, 2011, 04:46 PM   #136
opie
www.krissplicing.com
 
Join Date: 07-21-08
Location: Lansing, MI
Posts: 817
iTrader: (10)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
OK. Like i said, it's not something worth debating, because where you draw the line for "rich" vs. "not rich" is completely arbitrary. If someone thinks $60,000 is rich that's fine, I don't care. And we already have a graduated tax rate. They have already decided that income over certain thresholds should be taxed at a higher rate than income below. What your suggesting is nothing new, just a change to existing tax brackets.
You keep saying it doesnt matter, but it does. Because where that line falls will be used as a weapon to further class warfare. And the current suggestion is to raise taxes on the wealthy.. Well, whats wealthy? The general consensus among our leaders is either $200 or $250 per year. While I agree thats a boatload of money, I arrive at the conclusion based on my current income level. That may not be but pocket change to someone else. I am fine with a graduated, progressive tax structure. I would prefer something like a consumption/flat/national sales tax, but I am fine with the current structure. I would like to see it simplified but thats another discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
It's not just that they're doing better, it's the degree to which they're doing better. In 1980 the top 1% earned about 8.5% of the total income in this country. Most people seemed OK with that. By 2008 it was around 20%. People started to become unhappy about that. That latest number which I heard just yesterday put it at around 24% and people are protesting. It keeps going up. How much higher can it get and what will happen then? What happens when it gets to 50%?, to 75%? to 90%? What would happen if 1% got 99% of income? How long do you think a system like that would last?
It shouldnt matter at what degree they are doing better, because we should all be treated equally. Even though under just about any tax structure, the rich will pay a smaller percentage of their total income in taxes than the poor, they will still carry the majority of the tax load that ends up in the coffers of the Fed. At least with a simplified tax structure, it will be more difficult for anyone to get out of paying whatever the rate is set at.

The income disparity will never get to those levels, ever. It is feasibly impossible for 1% of the population to earn 99% of the income. Id wager that even the 24% wont last long. It may go up a bit more, but it will eventually tank and even off. Things do that, they swing. Everything swings and we have to stop reacting to the extremes on either side and plan for them in our daily lives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
That's exactly what I'm talking about. The low to middle is sliding into poor. The war you like to keep referring to is being lost.
BTW the top tax rate in the 50's and 60's was somewhere between 70 and 92%!
I am aware of past top tax brackets... And I think they were criminal. But in all reality, no one has ever paid anywhere near the top rate because of deductions and exemptions. It would probably surprise you to learn how quickly the income tax in the US went from 1% to 90%, and why it went up so quickly.

The war is being lost and the middle class is sliding down because its easier to live off the Government. Ill bet you that the majority of people that fall on hard times and eventually stay down blame someone else for their problems. The people that get back up and keep going dont blame anyone.


Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
So we should only have one thread here where we talk about life, the universe and everything?
I find it easier to focus on one facet of a multifaceted issue than try to figure out the entire issue at once.
Who said that?

I was thinking about this today and I think you are right. Ive gone way OT. First we need to figure out whos rich and what is a fair rate to tax them at.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
You'll love it, but it better be a really long road trip, it's over 1000 pages.
Ive heard its a long read, but I cant sit long enough to read a book so I listen to them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
And I never said anyone could do it. I couldn't. Well, maybe I could if I had to but I don't want to. I tried managing restaurants many years ago and hated it and wasn't very good at it. So I went and found something else I like doing better and am pretty good at (design).
Than its not an accurate guess to assume if one leaves, someone else will step up and take the job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
I agree that there is a difference between owning and running a business. Most of the anger seems to be directing at those running publicly owned businesses, not those owning privately held businesses.
You mean business that falls under the most amount of Government regulation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
I think it's great that you started your own business and hope you are very successful, and will keep you in mind when it's time to replace my winch line.
Thanks! I thrive on serving MI residents as much as possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
Why do I think more people don't do it? I'm sure there a million reasons. Maybe they're happy to work for someone else, too lazy, too stupid, don't want the hassles, don't have the desire, don't have the skills... the list is endless. My reason would be some combination of the above.
You wouldnt believe the myriad of regulations one needs to jump through to start their own business. Fortunately for me I dont have a storefront, parking, employees etc. I believe alot of folks learn of this and turn around. But yeah... most of your points are right on which brings me to this... If the protestors think they can do it better, rather than expending their energy trying to change the system, use it to get rich like the folks they are protesting against did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
Yes, but when your tree is cut down and chopped up and burnt for firewood to keep warm how much comfort will you get from the knowledge that it was the "wrong tree"?
It would be shortsighted of me to cut my own tree down, wouldnt it? However, Government is on my doorstep telling me I have to cut it down because my neighbor needs firewood.
opie is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Page generated in 0.10754 seconds with 20 queries