Originally Posted by brewmenn
We're talking about the same thing. Your civil war is my class warfare. It's the "haves" against the "have nots". Those that are doing well under the current systems don't want to change it. Those that aren't doing well do want to change it. The trend is that there are fewer of the former, and more of the latter. Once the latter becomes the majority change will become more likely.
Regardless if the movement started as a grassroots movement it claims, or if it's part of some type of sinister plot to start some type of revolution, people will only join it if they believe it will lead to a better life. Telling people that are poor or unemployed that it's their own fault they have no money or jobs only helps push them to the other side. It helps them believe that the current system just isn't working for them, that those in charge don't care about them. It only pushes us closer to the edge.
My hope, and I think the only hope, is that those who are benefiting from the current system and want to keep it realize that they may have to give a little. They have to appease the masses. Not out of charity, not for moral reasons, not out of fairness, but for self preservation.
Once again, pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered.
No, Im talking about a "grab your guns and defend yourself" civil war. We currently have enough politicians in power that think the second amendment doesnt apply anymore and think that our right to free speech ends when what we say offends another. They are attacking our free speech rights under the guise of anti-bullying legislation. Small steps to the end goal.
Lets be honest about the current situation in our country, and put some perspective on it. There really are not THAT many people in this country going without. Through some myriad of Government program either Fed or State, most of our basic needs can be met via tax revenues into the respective treasury. Our tax code allows folks who land squarely in the middle class to have a very low effective tax rate, and the level at which no income taxes are owed, IMO is to high. I dont buy into the notion that folks in the middle class are moving down based on income, I believe it is adjustments on what is considered middle class and poverty as defined by the Governing bodies. Add on top of these fairly simple points we still, all of us, enjoy a standard of living that far exceeds the majority of the rest of the world. So all the bellyaching about fairness in the economy, IMO, fades away.
Based on the fact that the majority of the Federal Budget is carried by a very small percentage of the population, why should those same people be expected to give more? They already give alot. Is it their fault the money that is taken from them is mishandled? I heard about a Government program today that specifically takes funds and uses them to solely re-train transvestites for new jobs. JUST transvestites. Why can transvestites not join one of the hundreds of other job training programs?
The statement "they have to appease the masses" is a perfect description of Democracy. No thought or mention of individual rights. Our country is built on the foundation of individual rights given to us by whomever we believe to be our creator. So in order for someone to be given something, it first must be taken from someone else. Which is a direct violation of my right to liberty, and my ability to pursue my own happiness.
Ive no problem paying taxes and I think everyone should be paying something based on the income they earn. But I can not sit by while 47% of the population doesnt pay any federal income taxes and listen to those same people gather and start targeting the rich to "pay their fair share."
What Im gathering from the protestors is they feel they have been taken advantage of by the banks, for the most part. Im of the belief that it takes 2 to tango. Banks did not force anyone to take out loans of any nature, the banks were approached by individuals and asked if they (the bank) would loan them money. A contract was signed and based on that contract both parties agreed on the amounts and terms of the loans. I fail to see how it is not the banks or wall streets fault for an individuals situation.
We continue to hear about greed and predatory lending.... Truth is the banks are not doing anything we as individuals dont do ourselves. Take the 47% that pay no federal income tax.... Out of self preservation, shouldnt they step back and look at the bigger picture? "If I continue to pay no taxes, I will continue to hurt my country." They are being greedy by keeping all the money they earn while others are paying effective rates near 30-40%. Whether or not one has the ability to pay 30% is irrelevant....
All of this glosses over the bigger picture that our Government can solve all these ills with the stroke of a pen. If the war on poverty was serious, there wouldnt be any poor folks living in the US. But it makes good political fodder and a Government program that needs money, so we keep the poor because its politically expedient. The same thing is going on right now... Look at Citibank and their $5 debit card fee... That fee is a direct result of Government regulation... Yet Citibank is taking all the heat and there are even politicians telling customers they should stop doing business with Citibank, while the Fed and the politicians sit back in the safety of the bread and circuses they throw at us.