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Old September 29th, 2011, 10:50 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post

#1 The disparity of wealth and income has been growing for most of the last several decades, and I think this is a bad thing for the future of this country.
Here is a NY Times article written in 2002 about the return of the Robber Barrons which you might find interesting:

Consider the description of executive behavior offered by John Kenneth Galbraith in his 1967 book, ''The New Industrial State'': ''Management does not go out ruthlessly to reward itself -- a sound management is expected to exercise restraint.'' Managerial self-dealing was a thing of the past: ''With the power of decision goes opportunity for making money. . . . Were everyone to seek to do so . . . the corporation would be a chaos of competitive avarice. But these are not the sort of thing that a good company man does; a remarkably effective code bans such behavior. Group decision-making insures, moreover, that almost everyone's actions and even thoughts are known to others. This acts to enforce the code and, more than incidentally, a high standard of personal honesty as well.''
Humm...sure sounds like how the financial sector rolls today...<heavy sarcasm>

Originally Posted by opie View Post

Ignorance will be our demise and it will lay squarely at the feet of the board of education. A government agency.
So now it is the government’s responsibility to teach basic morality to our children? What about parents’ responsibility to raise a decent, productive citizen?

From the article referenced above: “Managerial self-dealing was a thing of the past…” Well its back with a vengeance! The moral “code” got kicked to the curb sometime in the 70s when the “greed is good” era started. Now it is all about what everyone can get for themselves without any concern whether it is good for the company, its employees or the nation as a whole. Seems people don’t even consider whether a choice is good for themselves in the long run, let alone give the slightest thought about how it affects others. That greed and selfishness is not limited to any one group, it is pervasive at all levels in American society. Please explain to me how that is all the government’s fault.

The point being that business and government are run by people. It is individual people who make the decisions and it is each individual’s moral compass which guides their decision making. For some time now society’s moral compass has been set to greed and personal enrichment before all else. Imho that is the root cause of how we got where we are today and little will change until that basic underlying morality changes.

Originally Posted by opie View Post
It is a different time now than it was when we were kids. The levels of dependents on the Government dime 20 years ago wasnt anywhere near what it is today. Its not that I want to door slammed on anyone, its that the current model is unsustainable. We still have the same percentage of folks living in the US at the poverty level than when the war on poverty started. We have created a standard of living provided by the US Government via the taxpayers and now have generations of the same family being born and dying while living on Government assistance. I see jobs open all over Lansing but the line at the unemployment office strings out the door. The days of your Father are over because the Government has shown that folks can obtain a better standard of living on assistance with no accountability. We cant even drug test recipients because its "humiliating." We cant ask that woman on WIC or welfare keep their legs closed because they have a right to continue to have children even while on the public dime, by as many fathers as they see fit.

Its unsustainable, its socially disgusting and it will drag us down as a country if it continues. We have kids being born into Government assistance that will see that as an acceptable way of life and never get motivated to be productive members of society. Heck, we have generations of this now....

So you really believe the current situation is all because of welfare run amuck? Ok, take the small town folks whose major manufacturing facility was shut down and sent to Brazil. Not long before the decision to shut it down the company expanded that small plant and invested probably half a mil in just filtration equipment alone (I did the startup). Good hard working people doing their jobs until some new female financial exec with all the great management ideas taught in the great schools made a decision based on profit. Lives changed forever, our country weakened that little bit more by the loss of yet more manufacturing jobs. I’m guessing the executives and BOD got a little richer when their stock options went up in value in the short term….but what is the long term cost? Repeat this story over and over and over again throughout our country. I have seen it time and time again in the round cutting tool industry. So now explain to those people who invested blood and sweat into their company only to have their jobs yanked out from under them, and worse yet, those jobs will never return so now their kids cannot have the opportunities they did, please explain how welfare took their jobs. My dad said business in this country really changed when the financial guys started running the show. He was an executive vice president at a large corporation and had a front row seat to the transformation. He retired in the mid 80’s, disgusted with how the company was being run.

Should welfare be revamped, probably. Is it the root of our society's moral decay, doubtful. It is more likely the decay started at the top decades ago and has trickled down.

sent from my ass
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