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2WD vs AWD for the street

7K views 75 replies 25 participants last post by  Mr.Green 
#1 ·
This is a spin-off from a different hot rod thread.

What do you guys think, all other factors being the same, do you think you can get a RWD vehicle to hook up on the street like an AWD vehicle?

Suspension can be anything -leaves with caltracs, 4 link, ladder bars, etc.

AWD, I assume some 255 or 275 regular street tires
RWD, I assume some kind of drag radial

500HP
3200 lbs for awd / 3000lbs for RWD


RWD would be a lot easier to build, but would seem on the street AWD would be a much easier vehicle to drive, and not have to worry about rain + DRs...
 
#4 ·
I have built a few v8 astro vans. The rear wheel drive ones were kind of fun to drive, you could slide around and get sideways. The awd we built was boring. It was fun on rainy days and towed a snowmobile trailer great.
3000 lbs with 500 hp will add to the fun factor with awd drive but I still think it would get boring unless you are racing all the time.
The awd will also not be as durable unless you spend a lot of time and money to make it work. Imo
Plenty of people are running sub nine second qt miles with a 10" tire and a lot more hp. I dont think awd is something I would worry about.
 
#10 ·
He is also running slicks on a prepped track...good luck hooking up on the street like that.



AWD = better for the street
RWD = better for the track

Not saying there aren't fast rwd street cars or fast awd track cars, but generally...when you can run a set of slicks on a prepped track, you don't need awd to put the power down. On the street, where you are not likely to be running slicks and surface prep is far from ideal, awd will let you launch much harder.

My truck is useless trying to leave the line hard in 2wd (tuned ecoboost f150, around 400rwhp). Throw it in 4wd and do a boost launch, it will break your neck.
 
#8 ·
No, he is not but he is wasting energy by lifting the front end. Some proper wheelie bars would keep the front end down (but then that can also lift the rear tires off the ground or at least lose some downward pressure on the tires and cause them to spin). It is nice to see the chassis straight and not twisting like you see a lot, that means that his rear link setup is done properly, not traction bars or parallel 4 bar but still, I think he could do even better.

Also do not forget that he is on a meticulously prepped and maintained surface with specialized tires. Those are the only reasons he has enough traction to lift the front end like that. Most any normal vehicle on normal surfaces and normal tires has a snowball's chance in hell of doing that. Yes, I know there are pro-street cars that can still pull a wheelie but again, you are wasting engine power doing that. If the CoG was lower (and/or further forward), it would be more difficult.

Those rear engine badass sand rails can pull a wheelie too with paddle tires, but if the engine was in the middle where it should be, they would be winning more drag races and not just showing off with front tires 6 feet in the air. It looks really cool, no denying that but if just speed and acceleration is what you are after, they are doing it wrong
 
#38 ·
My Jeep is far from ideal for asphalt (or really any serious drag racing), but I can easily put it on the back bumper, on the street, in 2WD, with just a set of custom leaf springs and ET Streets. Off the footbrake, no transbrake.
I can also put it on the bumper in the sand in 2WD. That TJ frame is going to be a little better off than my CJ since it is longer though. So you'd actually have a little better start to going forward than up.
You're also going to be wasting energy/power dumping it thru a transfer case/front axle.
It's going to come down to a matter of what you really want to do.
 
#15 ·
He also drives it on the street. He does race engine machining out of his garage.

Talk to him for 5 minutes and you get winded. The man is hyper, to say the least.

Anyway, the point was more about "overpowering the tires". I used Dave's van as an example because cargo vans are generally traction challenged.

I also know someone that is putting a C5 Corvette's drivetrain and suspension under a 65 Chevy van, mostly for show, but after he retires it from the show circuit it will be driven hard.

With enough money, I would love to make a roadburner out of something like this:

 
#41 ·
Even though it is from almost 10 years ago, the parish Chevy would still be wicked on the street, a truck like that would definitely still surprise most other cars on the street. When a 4wd truck can run 10s on stock tires why would you even want a rwd car.]
Thats almost right on what I am targeting for what this will be capable of.

I have an LS2 motor for my project. So, I've been researching up what the LS2 cars are running with standard builds. I want to put in a new cam, because I want a lumpy low LSA cam for sound, as well as lowering the torque rpm, since I plan 4.10s/4.56s, and the AWD.

So, Looking at TBSS guys, builds with a cam, exhaust, intake, header, tuning, are getting into mid 12s.

Looking at GTOs, they are running mid 11s with the same setup.

What I find is many many vehicles 'crunch' out to around 500HP, and line up pretty well with what the drag calculators predict.

If I put the same numbers now into my expected running weight of 3250lbs, when a 500hp (crank hp) should run about 10.9 @ 123, which is pretty much exactly what that truck in the video is doing. (Actually, my weight spreadsheet shows 2800lbs, but I will assume an extra couple hundred pounds, plus my fat butt..). Considering that I have seen carbed LS2s hit 480hp on stock cam, 500hp (if not 525) on a good cam is certainly possible.
 
#44 ·
I went with awd simply because I wanted the transfer case to be as strong as possible using only 2 moving gears, shafts, and bearings. To get 60% bias in the rear I am using the engines weight.

More and more companies are going to rear biased awd. Front biased awd is junk and more of a cheap car thing. I have had 4 tempo's (sleepers) one was a 86 with "awd". The thing would not hook up worth a damn until I tossed weight in the rear.

I am also building my cj-5 into a light weight, low budget, 2wd, summer only, cruiser. Being lightweight I am moving the engine into the drivers compartment for better weight distribution. I am using 2wd because of the lighter weight and increased reliability over a awd system. That and I can get it lower cheaper using 2wd.
The stock 69 cj5's rolling chassis will be for sale soon.


What build are you starting now honcho?

What are you building this thing to do?

Toss slicks under that jeepster and be done with it.
 
#69 ·
I am also building my cj-5 into a light weight, low budget, 2wd, summer only, cruiser. Being lightweight I am moving the engine into the drivers compartment for better weight distribution. I am using 2wd because of the lighter weight and increased reliability over a awd system. That and I can get it lower cheaper using 2wd.
The stock 69 cj5's rolling chassis will be for sale soon.
.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE post pics of this build. I HAVE to see it. Sounds incredible! Just one pic PLEASE!
 
#75 ·
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE post pics of this build. I HAVE to see it. Sounds incredible! Just one pic PLEASE!
Here is some pictures of my junk after 8 days or screwing around with it. The build thread is on another forum as this is not a 4x4 or meant for offroad in anyway. It is just something to cruise around in for fun.

The motor will be set back using a motor plate. Drive shaft will be 25-22".



I am building a aluminum floor to channel the body onto the s-10 frame.



Narrowed explorer 8.8 with an auburn locker.


Cutting the frame behind the shackles.


Cutting the frame in front of the a arms using a manual rack and pinion.
 
#48 ·
likely not. I think it ends up making too many compromises.. I am finding this is the downfall of many Jeep projects, trying to make them do too many things, then they are not great at any one thing. If I make it setup for the dunes, then it needs to be taller and have ground clearance and wheel travel, and wider spacing for the tires. If I make it for the street, then I want it lower, and narrower.
 
#49 ·
Also, please PLEASE don't convert it to carbureted. You've got a cool, functional, innovative build in the works with some nice parts. Why take a great fuel injection system and downgrade to outdated technology? You've got the knowledge and resources to keep the EFI, so keep it.
 
#51 ·
Yeah, this is my plan. The carb setups *seem* very easy, and simple, buuuutt.... I don't know how to tune a carb for shit. I am thinking a pretty basic engine combo: long tubes, and not much exhaust after that, as functional of a cold-air intake as I can fit, electric fans, and a good size cam, and likely swap to some vette/GTO 33lb or some 42lb injectors, since the TBSS has 28#s...
 
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