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37 is the new 35?

86K views 179 replies 76 participants last post by  CSFJ 
#1 ·
So I think everyone agrees that 35 is the new 33... but any more it's getting to be where 37 is the new go to tire; and people have no issue jumping right in.

Do you see any issue with the rate noobz grow in this sport? Dangerous? Beneficial? Don't care?

Just trying to start a disccusion :thumb:
 
#42 ·
i love my stock tj on the borrowed 29'' tsls i used at the mounds, its so much fun to acutally work to get over an obstacle.

my tj will probably never see anything over a 35'' tire, its just more cost effective to build it smaller when your on a realy tight (read non-exisistant) budget
 
#44 ·
Treadwright is having a hard time getting 37" carcasses and something happened with their 35" line and they wont be making them until further notice. I read that on their website about a month ago.

I started out back in 98 on 31x10.5's Mud Kings on a 94 Chevy 4.3 vortec bone stock except the half assed cherry bomb. Spent every chance I had at M61 truck trails in Gladwin and rubber hill area in Omer. I usually went by myself unless I met someone up there. Did wheel with some big dogs and they were always waiting with chains/straps in hand but I always pulled through unless I got hung up on my frame. I don't plan to take my 85 GMC bigger than 35's. Thought about it but I want the risk of maybe getting stuck and have to get in the mud n start digging myself out with my hands and a stick. lol I go out to get dirty not just fly through everything. It's all about the challenge for me anyway.
 
#45 ·
well I was in the 32-33 category with the stock 30/35. when we swapped in the sII d44s front and rear since they were all torn apart both front and rear were redone with cromo shafts with the thick aftermarket retainers in the rear etc.. I went with a 35" tire and like it. not sure if I would go to 37's but only time will tell.

I happen to like the setup I got yet take a crapload of heat because they are not 60's and full widths. one thing I do see in the mags is a lack of moderate trail rigs and soo much focus on one ton or greater axles to even be allowed on any trail. like if you have anything less than a 60 in will simply implode in the staging area or something.
 
#56 ·
beating a dead horse

i have a overbuilt and overpaid 44 :fish: :rock: on 38's i could of had a stock 60 for the same price as my 44 but hindsight is 20/20
It's not beating a daed horse, and I don't mean to pick on 95Geo because I think he is realistic with his recommendations based on people's rigs and ability.

I just don't think that there is no place in this world for a built Dana 44. There are people that would be better off with a 44 than a 60. Not every wheelers needs are so cut and dry. For every one of us that says "I broke a dana 44 every trip out" there are 10 people that have no issue with that axle under their rig.
 
#57 ·
Bryce remeber when we went to paragon and i rode with TJrockcrawler? the 4 rigs that went were all on d44's in the 35"-37" tire range, we all had a blast and ran all but the "guide only trails" with no catostrophic failures..........until the last day when you tried to break your shit.

thats one of the reasons i chose to take a step back from the buggy and decided to build a full bodied, reliable, street legal, capable trail machine. i think its all preference, i know that i am going to be out of state maybe 1-2 times a year to wheel, so i think the d44's on 35's on my rig will be fine. if i dont make something i wont cry about it and say i need 60's and more power. if i ever finish my rig:sonicjay:
 
#61 ·
I think both Darryl and Bryce are right given the circumstances. I ran an early Bronco D44 with 35's and stock axles/joints. I could wheel all day long without breaking but I found myself having to be careful, because if I got a tire in the air and I was still under power, I would break a joint or shaft. If I was quick enough to get off the throttle I could save it. But, since I "like" to use my horsepower, I found it to be a bit of a nusiance. So, I upgraded to alloy shafts and super joints. Over the next 2 years, I NEVER broke anything in my front axle. I switched to 37's (measuring 36") and still did fine.

So, when I decided to do my linked suspension and go full width, I opted to go with a HPD44 Ford axle. I had it sitting in the garage ready to start building. We went to the Unlimited open house & Bryce was there with his tracker. True 37" stickie Trepadore tire. He got it twisted between 2 logs and with a simple burp of the throttle, he broke an alloy outer shaft. It got me to thinking that if Bryce could break an alloy shaft in a parking lot, is this what I want to base my build around? I opted to build a D60. I am absolutely positive that I have less money in my 60 than what I would have had in a blinged out 44 and I have beat the snot out of it with no problems. I've never had a problem hanging it up. I find a front dif is pretty easy to work around obstacles, it's usually the rear that is more likely to hang up.

So to the point, can a person wheel a D44 with 37's successfully? Yes, but you will eat u-joints over time and you will break if you run it hard. If you are a mild wheeler and work at being cautious, it will survive just fine.
 
#63 ·
Rubi owners can now have those bling bling longfields for their 44s. If they are anything like the Toy birfs, they'll take some big abuse.

My toy stuff held up just fine, until I moved to 38.5s, and really beat it(apparently blew the r & p's, although the rear was still driveable, and the front just popped from time to time). So I'm moving back to 37s, and taking 1000lbs out of the rig. No ball joints, great ground clearance and weight, blah...


I do think that with gas, economy, etc, people will be scalling back a bit.
 
#68 ·
I am considering a 60 in front to go along with my 60 rear. I have done good with my 44 up front (broke one shaft and blown u-joint) on hard trails but I'm with Kirby in that many obsticles make me pucker waiting for a "pop". I want to just have fun and not wait for it. Kinda like driving a clunker around always waiting for it to die on the side of the highway vs something solid that you could drive cross-country and not give it a second thought.

Sure things can be fixed and you move on but I'm not exactly knowledgeable on how to fix a lot of stuff (I'm learning as I go) but I'd rather just wheel and not stop to fix my stuff.

If I change to 60's f/r the clearance issues could be helped some with a larger tire. A larger tire won't let me go any other places then my 37's but I just want to keep doing what I have been with less worry.
 
#70 ·
Daryl is simply saying that he is tired of hearing everyone say "by the time you build your D44, you could have a D60." For $1000 (cost of a junkyard D60 front) you can have a D44, a gearset and an ARB. Everything on a D60 is MUCH MUCH more expensive; Bearings, Gears, ARB's (How does $1000 sound for one?), Shafts, Brakes, and Locking Hubs. If you build the D60 yourself with an ARB, Gears, new Brakes, New bearings, new hubs or drive flanges using STOCK SHAFTS, it will cost you nearly $4k.

Are there better axles to be built? Absolutly! But if you trying to be a cost effective wheeler, then go wheel D44's with 35's and have fun. If Tire size is hurting your Man-Meter, then be prepared to open your wallet and not just a little bit!
 
#71 ·
Daryl is simply saying that he is tired of hearing everyone say "by the time you build your D44, you could have a D60."

must suck to hate the truth! :sonicjay: :poke:

I'll report back on my axles after I have some time on them... anyone considering a built dana 60 in the rear should think about a spider 9... if done correctly it is only about $500 more and the benefits are HUGE!

I would actually like to go wheeling with you guys some time next year.... I just hope I can keep up! :teehee:
 
#76 ·
My D60 costs. Please accept the fact that some numbers are rough from memory.
Axle with lockouts: $700
Shortened alloy axle shaft $180 ish
Detroit Locker $600 ish
R&P/bearings: $400 ish
5 on 5.5 conversion. $150 for the brackets. I wouldn't add in calipers/pads/rotors because many junk yard axles would require the same regardless of size. I also re used the bearings because they were in great condition. If I'm forgetting something I'll add it in.

Total; $2030

I re used all other shafts. I did my own conversions for the 5 on 5.5.


Now making some wild ass guesses on a D44:
Axle with lockouts: $150
Shortened axle shaft $150 ish
Detroit Locker $550 ish
R&P/bearings: $350 ish

Sub Total: $1200
Now add in the other alloy shafts required.
$350 ish for shafts.
$360 for super joints.

Total: $1910

OK, maybe my 60 isn't cheaper but it's within $100 (rough estimate) and a hell of a lot stronger. AND, if I find I need to beef it up, upgrades will make it even better.

I know many of you have sarcasm for someone who has, and uses horsepower. You also feel you have more finesse that someone with horsepower. Well, I guess that's your perogative to have the opinion that someone with horsepower doesn't use finesse. I disagree. Sure, there are those that are hammer down guys. I would like to believe that I don't fall into that catagory. But here's where I see the difference. You and I may both try to finesse an obstacle. When you give up, you pull cable or back out. When I give up, I try my horsepower. Does it always work? NOPE, not at all. But sometimes it does. And, then there are those times where you won't even attempt an obstacle (such as a steep sand hill) because you know you can't make it. I have never had criticizm for those who choose to run a 4 or 6 cylinder. It's a personal choice. I think it's insulting to generally catagorize a person with a V8 as an unsafe idiot.
 
#80 ·
I know many of you have sarcasm for someone who has, and uses horsepower. You also feel you have more finesse that someone with horsepower. Well, I guess that's your perogative to have the opinion that someone with horsepower doesn't use finesse. I disagree. Sure, there are those that are hammer down guys. I would like to believe that I don't fall into that catagory. But here's where I see the difference. You and I may both try to finesse an obstacle. When you give up, you pull cable or back out. When I give up, I try my horsepower. Does it always work? NOPE, not at all. But sometimes it does. And, then there are those times where you won't even attempt an obstacle (such as a steep sand hill) because you know you can't make it. I have never had criticizm for those who choose to run a 4 or 6 cylinder. It's a personal choice. I think it's insulting to generally catagorize a person with a V8 as an unsafe idiot.

I wasn't having sarcasm for someone that has and used HP. I have a V8 in my YJ and doubled the HP in the flatty with the V6... I still will pull cable or take a strap before I ever hammer down (unless it is obvious that a little more skinny pedal will probably do it). I'd rather not risk a break that may delay the group or the amount of wheeling I get to do that day/that weekend. I like a challenge but I hate equipment failure more if it could be avoided by an extra 5 minutes pulling cable or taking a strap.

Part of that goes to the fact I don't have a tow rig and drive my stuff to and from the trails (the flatty gets towed if Adam is willing)
 
#77 ·
I know your not an unsafe idiot Jim and I hope you'd know that I would never infer that. I believe most high HP rig owners aren't either, it wasn't meant as a blanket statement. The above was specifically meant toward the hammer down guys (of any engine displacement) that consistantly place lives, property and the sport at risk via their negligence. The ones that make no effort on having, or learning, skill or finesse; so they build to compensate for it.


Orig. cost of my front 44:
Junkyard Scout 44 .................$150
Used 4:88's from postal jeep.....$40
Used Detroit locker ................$300
Narrowed housing at home ......$0.00
Cut/respline long side .............$65.00
Re-use all brakes bearings .......$0.00
Total....................................$555

Sometimes I also find myself getting sucked into the hype of overbuilding. I put all ChroMo shafts in when I put a 'soft' locker in the front, even though the other shafts lasted years with an old school locker.

Can't say the 60's for the CJ8 are as cost effective :(
 
#78 ·
Mike,
I know you on a personal level and didn't take it as a personal attack. (you can cement that by buying me a beer:teehee:) But I also wanted to set the record straight that I disagree with the hammer down stereotype. I see it stated quite often as though those that wheel with a smaller/less hp rig are more skilled than those that sport a V8. I just took this opportunity to speak my mind.

I noticed that you did not include the price of your alloy shafts. Since you felt the need to add them, could you add them to the price of your front axle build?
 
#81 ·
I would rather drive the vehicle however it's needed to make the challenge if a precise aproach doesnt do it and not have to worry or back down if I know I can make it but I'll have to be hard on it.
on a similar note;
I have seen more times than I can remember where someone can easily make the challenge but they just dont put forth the effort whether it's by pushing it or not.... it's almost like people are afraid of what their vehicle can do if they use some techniques to make progress. I think the people above (in general, not as a whole) are the ones that can make axles live longer than the average wheeler.

and back on-topic.... I think the general idea of 60's being required for the albicore trails comes from the fact that if you have 60's it usually doesnt matter what kind of driver you are, you arent going to be likely to break.... with a dana 44 and 37" tires there is a lot more uncertainty to the strength of the axles and also takes out the factor if the driver knows how to drive a vehicle with fragile axles or not.

theres some more fuel for the fire! :sonicjay:
 
#87 ·
omfg .. this thread is full of horse shit now.

Are 37"s the new 35"s turned into axle strength and cost comparisons :rolleyes: ... just get out and do some fucking wheeling and stfu. If you're building a rig .. build it .. if you have a rig .. wheel it .. if you have stock axles .. use your head .. if you have built axles .. wheel it .. hard. Cheese and rice.

Just so a point is made .. in general, yes, it seems common that more people who used to have 35's now have 37's and most the guys I know that had 36's to 37's are now on 39.5 and up.

To each their own.
 
#90 ·
My Jeep is my DD and anytime anywhere I can drive it to wheel it, Wheeling in AL now with rock, mud and rutted out mts. Been out a few times with stock D30 with small u joints (93XJ) and went through the stuff I dared to try, climbed some nasty hills with rock ledges in 4low and a light foot and with 4.10 turning the 37's climbed over everything slowly but it made it. Have not tried the real nasty stuff with 3ft+ steps as to not break, I'm gentle but don't want to be skipping stuff in the matter I may break.
I built my rig to run 33's, with the way of going to 35's, I like the 35's but I like my 37's better and I'm pretty content running the 37's, but if I upgrade anything then I think I just might save more money up front if I plan for like 39's as to be not in the same predicament of having to upgrade again.
 
#92 ·
no offence intended.... it sounds like you need to do some more wheeling. once you get some more seat time and find out what kind of wheeling you want to do mostly and if you ever want to have a wheeling spefic rig. once you get those thinkgs figured out then you can decide if you need dana 60's... I wouldnt recommend them in anything that sees DD duties... if it's occasional high speed travel, thats fine but if you drive the jeep every day you dont need 60's under it.
 
#99 ·
if you did end up with 60's then I would recommend not putting them in the XJ (assuming that's your wheeler based on the pictures) I dont mean to offend any one with an XJ but how many of you that have one and have gone to 60s wishes they would have started with a different vehicle?

if you do make a vehicle that big some day I would suggest starting with something that has replaceable panels like the windshield, roof, etc. and most important one is a full frame to work from.

do some more wheeling, save your pennies and buy something used and either use it as it, make the needed mods to be "yours" or part it out and use all of the good parts on the future build you would want. :thumb:
 
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