West Side KOTARO Training

Trail_Fanatic · June 13th, 2008, 01:48 PM

First I'd like to thank all of you who have expressed an interest in mapping/saving Michigan's rustic roads. While we would eventually like to have a complete and accurate map of everything Michigan has to offer, we are under time restrictions on the Manistee National Forest because of the pending Motor Vehicle Use Map scheduled to come out in the spring of 2009.
When the Manistee MVUM is published there will be a 30 day comment period during which we can submit gps data for any "road" that they have omitted from the map to have them considered for inclusion. The state is not undertaking this type of project, only the NFS. The Huron, Hiawatha, and Ottawa are already published. Currently, our time, effort, and gas have the best chance to make a positive impact if we concentrate on the Manistee NF this year. To that end, we need to schedule an West Side KOTARO Training date to ensure we're all collecting our date the same way. Data collection involves more than just turning on your gps and driving the woods. A track on a gps map is just a line. It is necessary to know if that track represents a 2 lane paved road, a maintained dirt road, two track, or 4WD road. Notes accompanying the tracks is also needed for this clarification. It will take about 3-4 hours to complete the training.
In an attempt to maximize participation, I have the following dates available that we could hold a Training session on:
June 28,29
August 2,3
August 10
August 23,24
August 30,31
My July is already shot.
I'd REALLY rather shoot for the June date so that you can all have more time to use the KOTARO collection method over the rest of the summer, but if no one can make it until the August dates, that's when we'll schedule it.
What is everyone's preference for a date?
We'll meet at 9:30am at the CarGo fuel station on M120 in Twin Lake
(5536 Holton Road (M120) Twin Lake, MI 49457) and train by mapping the southern boundary of the Manistee NF.

Foamer · June 18th, 2008, 09:51 AM

June would be best for me, and would give us more time to get the routes recorded.

My problem is, my GPS actually maps more accurately than the KOTARO method calls for (from what the DVD says). Is that going to cause a problem in the end result? I know they are trying to get all the data to be the same specifications. Obviously lower resolution data would cause an issue, but what about higher resolution data?

Additionally, I have been gathering elevation and elevation change data/side to side roll data (off-camber,etc recorded by the accelerometers in the gps) that is recorded along side the tracks. I have found both to be very accurate as well.

tjs0461 · June 18th, 2008, 08:20 PM

June would be good for me to. I have delorme on my laptop will that work. Let me know

Alter Ego · June 22nd, 2008, 09:00 AM

Pat
What did you come up with? I'll be up there starting on the 29th of June for 2 weeks and want to get some of this done - even during the week. I need to get together with you to get the forms and find out what areas need doing. Hopefully someone else may be able to go during the weekdays too. I am willing to go out on my own if need be.

Trail_Fanatic · June 23rd, 2008, 05:02 AM

Foamer, the KOTARO is just a minimum. More data is fantastic.
tjs0461, we have a guy who can convert from DeLorme (or just about anything else) to the file types the government uses, so come on out!

So June 29th at 9:30am at the CarGo fuel station on M120 in Twin Lake
(5536 Holton Road (M120) Twin Lake, MI 49457).

See you guys there!
Thanks!

Foamer · June 23rd, 2008, 10:12 AM

Will be there!

upchuck · June 23rd, 2008, 11:41 AM

That's tight for me with family s*** in afternoon. Will try

tjs0461 · June 23rd, 2008, 04:43 PM

I will see you there. Tim

Trail_Fanatic · June 23rd, 2008, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upchuck

That's tight for me with family s*** in afternoon. Will try

You live close.
Give me a call and we'll see if we can set something up 'special' for you.

Foamer · June 28th, 2008, 07:52 PM

see ya guys tomm...

Trail_Fanatic · June 28th, 2008, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foamer

see ya guys tomm...

Foamer · June 28th, 2008, 08:52 PM

Hey, bring a list of areas you want mapped between here, and Traverse City (if you know the specific FR number, or general area it is at.) I am in the mood to do another mapping spree, and have the next two weeks off work.

tjs0461 · June 28th, 2008, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foamer

Hey, bring a list of areas you want mapped between here, and Traverse City (if you know the specific FR number, or general area it is at.) I am in the mood to do another mapping spree, and have the next two weeks off work.

x2 the wife and i are going to East Jordan on the 4th takeing back roads and two tracks as much as possible Tim

Trail_Fanatic · June 29th, 2008, 04:04 PM

GREAT to see you gentlemen this morning!
Foamer, glad to finally make your acquaintance!
Gary, thanks for going back and getting those last 3 trails after I had to leave.

All, PLEASE teach your friends!!!

If you have ideas for improvement of any part of the process, PLEASE let us know!

The process is kind of set up for those who don't know the computer end very well
With the laptop set ups you guys should be able to cut a lot of the steps out of the middle.

Really not much to it.
It's just that we HAVE to know what kind of track has been mapped.

Email me your tacks, pics, notes, etc.

And again,
Thanks for coming out!

Foamer · June 29th, 2008, 07:52 PM

Nice meeting you all.

Like I said, I am very picky about having clean looking trails, though I will definitely start using the little waypoint sheets you gave us. It should help keep everything organized and in order.

Additionally, I just ordered an HD mini-dv camcorder that I can mount to the dash and actually make dvd drive-throughs of the nicer trails if that would help convince the USFS to keep some of the scenic routes open. I have a nifty way (that I forgot to talk about) to integrate all this stuff easily into google earth, including pics, 360 degree views, video, text, historical info, etc.

Basically what I am gonna start doing is creating two sets of data; the raw data needed for the KOTARO project, and then an enhanced 'interactive' set that I will burn to DVD's and get to you to easily show people integrated maps with video, pics, audio, etc. (if you have a presentations or something and want stuff that is easily presentable to the average person)

Trail_Fanatic · June 29th, 2008, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foamer

Nice meeting you all.

Like I said, I am very picky about having clean looking trails, though I will definitely start using the little waypoint sheets you gave us. It should help keep everything organized and in order.

Additionally, I just ordered an HD mini-dv camcorder that I can mount to the dash and actually make dvd drive-throughs of the nicer trails if that would help convince the USFS to keep some of the scenic routes open. I have a nifty way (that I forgot to talk about) to integrate all this stuff easily into google earth, including pics, 360 degree views, video, text, historical info, etc.

Basically what I am gonna start doing is creating two sets of data; the raw data needed for the KOTARO project, and then an enhanced 'interactive' set that I will burn to DVD's and get to you to easily show people integrated maps with video, pics, audio, etc. (if you have a presentations or something and want stuff that is easily presentable to the average person)

Dude!

June 13th, 2008, 01:48 PM	#1
Trail_Fanatic Member since 1994 Join Date: 03-25-06 Location: Muskegon and Oceana Counties Posts: 2,595 iTrader: (0)	West Side KOTARO Training First I'd like to thank all of you who have expressed an interest in mapping/saving Michigan's rustic roads. While we would eventually like to have a complete and accurate map of everything Michigan has to offer, we are under time restrictions on the Manistee National Forest because of the pending Motor Vehicle Use Map scheduled to come out in the spring of 2009. When the Manistee MVUM is published there will be a 30 day comment period during which we can submit gps data for any "road" that they have omitted from the map to have them considered for inclusion. The state is not undertaking this type of project, only the NFS. The Huron, Hiawatha, and Ottawa are already published. Currently, our time, effort, and gas have the best chance to make a positive impact if we concentrate on the Manistee NF this year. To that end, we need to schedule an West Side KOTARO Training date to ensure we're all collecting our date the same way. Data collection involves more than just turning on your gps and driving the woods. A track on a gps map is just a line. It is necessary to know if that track represents a 2 lane paved road, a maintained dirt road, two track, or 4WD road. Notes accompanying the tracks is also needed for this clarification. It will take about 3-4 hours to complete the training. In an attempt to maximize participation, I have the following dates available that we could hold a Training session on: June 28,29 August 2,3 August 10 August 23,24 August 30,31 My July is already shot. I'd REALLY rather shoot for the June date so that you can all have more time to use the KOTARO collection method over the rest of the summer, but if no one can make it until the August dates, that's when we'll schedule it. What is everyone's preference for a date? We'll meet at 9:30am at the CarGo fuel station on M120 in Twin Lake (5536 Holton Road (M120) Twin Lake, MI 49457) and train by mapping the southern boundary of the Manistee NF. Last edited by Trail_Fanatic; June 13th, 2008 at 01:56 PM.

June 18th, 2008, 09:51 AM	#2
Foamer Senior Member Join Date: 03-29-08 Location: Grand Haven, MI Posts: 503 iTrader: (0)	June would be best for me, and would give us more time to get the routes recorded. My problem is, my GPS actually maps more accurately than the KOTARO method calls for (from what the DVD says). Is that going to cause a problem in the end result? I know they are trying to get all the data to be the same specifications. Obviously lower resolution data would cause an issue, but what about higher resolution data? Additionally, I have been gathering elevation and elevation change data/side to side roll data (off-camber,etc recorded by the accelerometers in the gps) that is recorded along side the tracks. I have found both to be very accurate as well. Last edited by Foamer; June 18th, 2008 at 10:50 AM.

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June 18th, 2008, 08:20 PM	#3
tjs0461 Senior Member Join Date: 02-19-07 Location: Grand Haven Posts: 123 iTrader: (2)	June would be good for me to. I have delorme on my laptop will that work. Let me know

June 22nd, 2008, 09:00 AM	#4
Alter Ego Apprentice Geezer Join Date: 06-19-08 Location: Fenton and Whitehall Posts: 30 iTrader: (0)	Pat What did you come up with? I'll be up there starting on the 29th of June for 2 weeks and want to get some of this done - even during the week. I need to get together with you to get the forms and find out what areas need doing. Hopefully someone else may be able to go during the weekdays too. I am willing to go out on my own if need be.

June 23rd, 2008, 05:02 AM	#5
Trail_Fanatic Member since 1994 Join Date: 03-25-06 Location: Muskegon and Oceana Counties Posts: 2,595 iTrader: (0)	Foamer, the KOTARO is just a minimum. More data is fantastic. tjs0461, we have a guy who can convert from DeLorme (or just about anything else) to the file types the government uses, so come on out! So June 29th at 9:30am at the CarGo fuel station on M120 in Twin Lake (5536 Holton Road (M120) Twin Lake, MI 49457). See you guys there! Thanks!

June 23rd, 2008, 10:12 AM	#6
Foamer Senior Member Join Date: 03-29-08 Location: Grand Haven, MI Posts: 503 iTrader: (0)	Will be there!

June 23rd, 2008, 11:41 AM	#7
upchuck Senior Member Join Date: 10-16-07 Location: grand rapids, Michigan Posts: 360 iTrader: (2)	That's tight for me with family s*** in afternoon. Will try

June 23rd, 2008, 04:43 PM	#8
tjs0461 Senior Member Join Date: 02-19-07 Location: Grand Haven Posts: 123 iTrader: (2)	I will see you there. Tim

June 28th, 2008, 07:52 PM	#10
Foamer Senior Member Join Date: 03-29-08 Location: Grand Haven, MI Posts: 503 iTrader: (0)	see ya guys tomm...

June 28th, 2008, 08:52 PM	#12
Foamer Senior Member Join Date: 03-29-08 Location: Grand Haven, MI Posts: 503 iTrader: (0)	Hey, bring a list of areas you want mapped between here, and Traverse City (if you know the specific FR number, or general area it is at.) I am in the mood to do another mapping spree, and have the next two weeks off work.

June 29th, 2008, 04:04 PM	#14
Trail_Fanatic Member since 1994 Join Date: 03-25-06 Location: Muskegon and Oceana Counties Posts: 2,595 iTrader: (0)	GREAT to see you gentlemen this morning! Foamer, glad to finally make your acquaintance! Gary, thanks for going back and getting those last 3 trails after I had to leave. All, PLEASE teach your friends!!! If you have ideas for improvement of any part of the process, PLEASE let us know! The process is kind of set up for those who don't know the computer end very well With the laptop set ups you guys should be able to cut a lot of the steps out of the middle. Really not much to it. It's just that we HAVE to know what kind of track has been mapped. Email me your tacks, pics, notes, etc. And again, Thanks for coming out!

June 29th, 2008, 07:52 PM	#15
Foamer Senior Member Join Date: 03-29-08 Location: Grand Haven, MI Posts: 503 iTrader: (0)	Nice meeting you all. Like I said, I am very picky about having clean looking trails, though I will definitely start using the little waypoint sheets you gave us. It should help keep everything organized and in order. Additionally, I just ordered an HD mini-dv camcorder that I can mount to the dash and actually make dvd drive-throughs of the nicer trails if that would help convince the USFS to keep some of the scenic routes open. I have a nifty way (that I forgot to talk about) to integrate all this stuff easily into google earth, including pics, 360 degree views, video, text, historical info, etc. Basically what I am gonna start doing is creating two sets of data; the raw data needed for the KOTARO project, and then an enhanced 'interactive' set that I will burn to DVD's and get to you to easily show people integrated maps with video, pics, audio, etc. (if you have a presentations or something and want stuff that is easily presentable to the average person)