Letter writing time...Help reopen the road shoulders to ORV access in Michigan!

Yetti · February 1st, 2007, 06:36 PM

I didn't put this in the sport section yet because not enough people read over there. I need EVERYONE to write to the REPs listed below to support the up coming bill to change the laws on ORV use on road shoulder in our state. just because a few people wrote to them doesn't mean squat. we need to show the folks who make this stuff happen we need this to save our state and make it better for everyone.

This is from Brady At Rep Sheltrowns office

Quote:

Our thanks go out to everyone who has contacted their state representative and senator. We have been contacted by a large number of legislators asking for more information on the ORV legislation. We're still waiting for the Draft 3 (the draft after the changes you suggested) to come back from the attorneys. We hope to introduce it next week. It will have a bill number then you can reference and I imagine a copy of the bill will be posted here. The House committee hearing on the bill is planned to take place the week of February 19. We're not waiting around to get this done!

The bill will go to the House Tourism, Outdoor Recreation, and Natural Resources Committee. The 11 members of that committee have just been named. While it is important for everyone to contact their representative so the bill has the support it needs when it goes before the full House, if you are a constituent of one of the people listed below, it is particulary important that you, your family, and your friends contact them ASAP as these are the House committee members:

Sheltrown (Chair-all counties along M-55 in northern LP) "no need to contact him of course"
Ebli (Dem Vice Chair-Monroe County)
Casperson (GOP Vice Chair-Escanaba and southern UP)
Hammon (Dem-Genesse County)
Brown (Dem-Thumb)
Law (Dem-Downriver & SW Wayne Co.)
Lindberg (Dem-Marquette & northern UP)
Simpson (Dem-Jackson County)
Horn (GOP-rural Saginaw County)
Stakoe (GOP-NW Oakland County)
Walker (GOP-Grand Traverse & Kalkaska)

By the way, any legislator who has decided to support the bill is going to be VERY CLEAR in telling you that. The letter published here from Rep. Hune is a good example. Anything else is fluff to appear to be supportive until they see the bill and get a better handle on the issue. At this point, most legislators will reply with a seemingly supportive but noncommittal letter. This should be expected as most don't quite know what the legislation does yet and haven't seen a copy of the bill. The exceptions like Rep. Hune either are ORV owners themselves, are already strong supporters of motorized recreation, or represent a county in northern Michigan that has already opened its road system.

-Brady (Rep. Sheltrown's office)

heres the link to your Reps..
http://house.michigan.gov/find_a_rep.asp

Immortal · February 2nd, 2007, 09:01 PM

A general letter stating how we love our sport and how we need to keep trails open for all that are responsible?

Yetti · February 3rd, 2007, 07:24 AM

No Dave, this is for the purpose of opening the road shoulders to the smaller ORVs. the idea here is to ask your reps to support the up coming bill and see to it that its pushed into law. the bill will clarify the rules regaurding the opening of road shoulders and allow the counties in the lower to open as needed for your access. its a boon for all of us if this happens because it will show to the county commisioners that we are a responsible group and we have money to spend in the north.
Right now the northern counties finally have some snow. if it was a dry year they would be starving to death right now. granted the bit of snow they got already came on the heals of huge losses because the snow came late. if we have the same rights to road shoulder uses then we could backfill the intire state with revenue when theres no snow. if it works as well as I hope we will replace snowmobiles as the dominate supplier of incoming monies to the northern communities, with that comes respect for our sport.

so if you can do your best to write a nice letter. form letters are not exceptable thats a proven fact.

bj house · February 3rd, 2007, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yetti

No Dave, this is for the purpose of opening the road shoulders to the smaller ORVs. the idea here is to ask your reps to support the up coming bill and see to it that its pushed into law. the bill will clarify the rules regaurding the opening of road shoulders and allow the counties in the lower to open as needed for your access. its a boon for all of us if this happens because it will show to the county commisioners that we are a responsible group and we have money to spend in the north.
Right now the northern counties finally have some snow. if it was a dry year they would be starving to death right now. granted the bit of snow they got already came on the heals of huge losses because the snow came late. if we have the same rights to road shoulder uses then we could backfill the intire state with revenue when theres no snow. if it works as well as I hope we will replace snowmobiles as the dominate supplier of incoming monies to the northern communities, with that comes respect for our sport.

so if you can do your best to write a nice letter. form letters are not exceptable thats a proven fact.

Very well said Yetti

How many counties currently are participating in the "trial" period that I heard that Ogemaw was doing a year or two ago? There was a sign on Ski Park Rd. in West Branch that mentioned it but I have never got a clear word from the DNR or anyone else as to the exact law. I heard it was for anything north of M55?

UPNORTH · February 7th, 2007, 07:22 PM

Sorry but a big no from me. They destroy to much in my area. I like them trailered to there trails. This is why I pay dearly for SOS and ride dual sport.

Yetti · February 8th, 2007, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UPNORTH

Sorry but a big no from me. They destroy to much in my area. I like them trailered to there trails. This is why I pay dearly for SOS and ride dual sport.

Thats Ok, everyone is doing what they feel is right. the trick here is the ORVs are coming. Ogemaw has had very good results with enforcement and has had one or two small issues with people who unloaded and thought it was open season...its a learning curve. once everyone knows the rules it will be fine. I know there are about 7-9 countys waiting in the wings right now for this bill to get passed. once that happens I bet you'll see loads of others follow suit.

By the way UPNORTH, How much money has Grayling lost from the late snow this year?

Yetti · February 8th, 2007, 04:28 AM

BJ follow the link to the ordinances
http://www.greatlakes4x4.com/showthread.php?t=30899

UPNORTH · February 8th, 2007, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yetti

Thats Ok, everyone is doing what they feel is right. the trick here is the ORVs are coming. Ogemaw has had very good results with enforcement and has had one or two small issues with people who unloaded and thought it was open season...its a learning curve. once everyone knows the rules it will be fine. I know there are about 7-9 countys waiting in the wings right now for this bill to get passed. once that happens I bet you'll see loads of others follow suit.

By the way UPNORTH, How much money has Grayling lost from the late snow this year?

I know your kidding when you say all will know the rules someday. And I'm sure and know from CO's that Quads, aka 4 wheelers, are more of a problem than you know about. In my area they come up and camp out all weekend, every weekend in the summer and ride state trail roads. When confronted they laugh and say,"I have done this for years and will keep doing it forever and I don't care about the law". And yes no ORV trails within 6 miles as the crow flies in this area.
And I don't care about the snow money loss, but it is to bad you use scare tactics to bring people to your side. And if you ever want to know what the area used to be like when you could ride every where I would be glad to explain it to you someday in person.

I like the state trails by my house now that I can ride my mountain bike on them and I envite you to stop by for a ride someday to show you what a regrown trail looks like. And ya your going to say this is about the road use but give a little and watch alot be taken. People never learn is a good but not accurate statement. People don't care to learn, just fullfill their own needs.

Yetti · February 8th, 2007, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UPNORTH

it is to bad you use scare tactics to bring people to your side.

Scare tactics????
since when is the truth scare tactics?
I know several people who had to forgo reservations up there for sking and other stuff because of no snow. one guy at work said his buddy lost upwards of $8000 each week the snow didn't come. so if you spread that over about 30-50 lodges thats some serious coin.
secondly my wifes family is from Grayling...do ya know any Lovely's?
I can think of a few go down to the logging museum by the tracks and you can see most of her uncles & grand pa hanging on the walls down there.
I missed out this last year, but for the last couple I have been looking at realestate in Frederic. been all over around there and have only seen one quad on a back road in about 3000 miles of travel around there. as for opening the roads it sounds like you are againest it no matter what. I know how this process works, its slow but it does yield results.

UPNORTH · February 10th, 2007, 07:04 AM

Well did some checking and found this can't happen the way you want it to. But answer me this. Why don't you fight for the group fees to be lowered so when groups like I am a member, like C.C.C., can get together and spread knowledge. Your quest sounds like it is only for one at a time. People need the help of others to learn safety and user skills on any piece of equipment. With the group fees so high most organizations, like the snow packers in St Helen, can give only a small portion to donations. When they used to give allot. And the word is that they and other groups may have to cancel events because of fee constraints from the state. But you like others don't seem to care about groups that can teach good riding skills. You just want a free for all on the roads. I can assure you that riders won't learn if not taught.
And yes I’m against any none insured vehicle going down any legal road. What will happen if a child gets hurt or a piece of property gets damaged by an uninsured vehicle on a county maintained road? Oh yes you have to sue the person. You do not get the benefit of having the insurance pay. And who will pay for road maintenance? Oh yes that will be the local taxpayer. The out of area rider will give nothing for the road.
And yes I know most all of your wife’s family.
And thanks for the eye opening, so I can get on the bandwagon.

Yetti · February 10th, 2007, 08:15 PM

I can say I have never put much thought into the group fees because its done by the DNR for THE DNR. they use that fee for inforcement. its over and above anything I can get done. the idea here is the DNR are small in number and getting smaller. the fact is without absorbant user fees they would dry up and be gone. the other issue is who lets them get away with it? I know I never asked for the crap these guys dole out. I have never heard of a bunch of guys so set on preventing the tax payers of a state from using its resourse for recreation. the only thing they see is green...dollar green. they are selling us out one peice at a time.
I hope with all the cuts Jenny is making she cuts them big time. they need to be a little more user friendly.

Quote:

But you like others don't seem to care about groups that can teach good riding skills. You just want a free for all on the roads. I can assure you that riders won't learn if not taught.
And yes I’m against any none insured vehicle going down any legal road. What will happen if a child gets hurt or a piece of property gets damaged by an uninsured vehicle on a county maintained road? Oh yes you have to sue the person.

I don't see what this had to do with user fees, but I support training for kids. never had issue with it.
as for a "free for all" I don't see it happening. there is to much at stake for the users to get wild and flush it before it gets started.
the idea is to get the county open to monies they wouldn't other wise have at they're disposal. if you know a hotel owner or a restraunt owner ask them what they think of having the roads open to allow access to their businesses. I know I will use this kind of info when looking to buy property. it could be the difference in spending thousands in a community

Quote:

Oh yes you have to sue the person. You do not get the benefit of having the insurance pay. And who will pay for road maintenance? Oh yes that will be the local taxpayer. The out of area rider will give nothing for the road

as I have explained in other posts, the user fees for ORV stickers already have this in there. ANY open county can put in for funds to maintain it open road and to subsidize the Law inforcement. its all there. I would never try and sell anyone on this if I thought it could cost a community more money then it could take in.

by the way I talked to my wifes cousin he's got the same name as your retired sheriff.(hes her second cousin)

UPNORTH · February 11th, 2007, 12:41 PM

I can say I have never put much thought into the group fees because its done by the DNR for THE DNR.

Contact Joel Sheltrown he is ahead of the committe that can influence the DNR fees for group events. I have contacted him and I know lots of people in St. Helen that are voicing there opinion to him over the fees.

by the way I talked to my wifes cousin he's got the same name as your retired sheriff.(hes her second cousin)

So your talking about Davey. Know him well. You will have to stop in when up north and go riding. Also bring a mountain bike and be ready for 16 miles of Hanson Hills. Some of the best prep area to build endurance that you will need for off road riding in the area. And in my opinion one of the best mountain bike areas in the north. Just as long as the ORVS stay out of the area. But that is what cell phones and digital cameras are for. Oh and hope your not one of those big tool box riders that has nothing but beer in it. Those folks are lossers on the trail. But fun to throw gravel at when passing.

Yetti · February 11th, 2007, 02:04 PM

well my collection has a couple of mountain bikes in it.
up to now I have not met "Davey".. I seem to have meet everyone else though.
sounds like I need to take a few minutes to write Mr. Sheltrown to get more info on the fee issue? I will do so shortly.

on that last part...sorry I only carry extra gas & water, my quads a pack animal.
beer is for around the camp fire and thats it.
by the way have ever had a "pop" that has been beat down 20 miles of trail? Yeck!

UPNORTH · February 11th, 2007, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yetti

by the way have ever had a "pop" that has been beat down 20 miles of trail? Yeck!

I usually drink poweraid or gateraid or juice in my camelbak. That pop sounds dangerous. And you will like Dave. He is a nice guy.

Yetti · February 11th, 2007, 03:31 PM

I have moved from Mt.Dew to Propell fitness water & lipton green tea. it doesn't leave you parched 30 minutes later, plus it holds up on the front of a quad.
Thats good to hear about Dave. I know his other cousin Dave and hes a nice guy too.

Trail-XJ · February 11th, 2007, 04:39 PM

i think the answer to the atv would be a licensing program which would be manditory if you wanted to use the shoulder of the road. a little education and some good law enforcement and this would be a good deal. i know that since i'm 22 i am quick to be judged as a punk kid/land abuser when i'm on my quad but it's the complete opposite. i am out to have fun and at the same time respect the land. i think small towns would benifit from more ATV use since the sport is growing so much. and if shoulder use is not the answer then we need a trail system like the snowmobiles have with access to gas and food without using the roads. i am tired of being stuck on 50" wide trails that my banshee will barley fit down let alone my sportsman. since i snowmobile i don't want to see quads on the sled trails but something has gotta give here. i saw a post about INSURANCE. even though its not manditory both my quads and sleds are insured with full coverage and the price in not too bad. so lets make insurance manditory and let us ATV'ers get some more land use!!!!!!!

Yetti · February 12th, 2007, 06:45 PM

I would love to see this state go to a full registration with plate if it got us unlimited road use. I would galdly pay the $100 a year for that. AZ. has the program there because they have folks who do nothing but road ride. they charge $135 for a plate and then $15 for a 3 year ORV sticker. it sould be the same here. now heres the kicker. If I bring my AZ registered Quad to michigan I can ride it legally! by federal law its allowed because every state has to honer all the licencing allowed by other states. if you wanted you could ride coast to coast on the roads with out issue. the only thing you can't do is ride on federal highways.

Pro-Mow · February 12th, 2007, 09:16 PM

do people make the drive to get that licince every year

is that licence availble for the dirt bikes (non enduros)

That were polaris got the idea of a street quad for the detroit auto show

MonkeyBiz · February 12th, 2007, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yetti

If I bring my AZ registered Quad to michigan I can ride it legally! by federal law its allowed because every state has to honer all the licencing allowed by other states. if you wanted you could ride coast to coast on the roads with out issue. the only thing you can't do is ride on federal highways.

Now that would be fun.

Yetti · February 13th, 2007, 04:33 PM

Theres accually a push for road quads going on now with the CPSC and they are dead set againest them. if the market could be opened up then all kinds of new machines could appear. Yamaha owns the patents on the single rear wheeled trike so unless someone buys into the rights you won't see any in production anytime soon. there was one about 4 years ago called a "GG" that had a BMW drive line that was sweet looking but only for the road. Peugout also made one. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

February 11th, 2007, 04:39 PM	#16
Trail-XJ Bank Account Understands! Join Date: 03-25-06 Location: Clawson,MI & Fife Lake,MI Posts: 495 iTrader: (7)	i think the answer to the atv would be a licensing program which would be manditory if you wanted to use the shoulder of the road. a little education and some good law enforcement and this would be a good deal. i know that since i'm 22 i am quick to be judged as a punk kid/land abuser when i'm on my quad but it's the complete opposite. i am out to have fun and at the same time respect the land. i think small towns would benifit from more ATV use since the sport is growing so much. and if shoulder use is not the answer then we need a trail system like the snowmobiles have with access to gas and food without using the roads. i am tired of being stuck on 50" wide trails that my banshee will barley fit down let alone my sportsman. since i snowmobile i don't want to see quads on the sled trails but something has gotta give here. i saw a post about INSURANCE. even though its not manditory both my quads and sleds are insured with full coverage and the price in not too bad. so lets make insurance manditory and let us ATV'ers get some more land use!!!!!!! __________________ 1991 Wrangler 1.5" Springs, SOA, 35" Dyna Pro M/T. 8.8 explorer rear with discs 2008 Chevy Silverado 1500 Vortec MAX Z71 2005 Polaris 700 XC-SP 1988 Checkmate Starfire w/350 chevy 2004 Yamaha Banshee

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February 2nd, 2007, 09:01 PM	#2
Immortal www.yogispiggig.com Join Date: 11-09-05 Location: Harper Woods Posts: 8,457 iTrader: (16)	A general letter stating how we love our sport and how we need to keep trails open for all that are responsible?

February 3rd, 2007, 07:24 AM	#3
Yetti BUY my P.O.S.! Join Date: 11-05-05 Location: west of Chelsea, and east of Grass lake Posts: 5,860 iTrader: (2)	No Dave, this is for the purpose of opening the road shoulders to the smaller ORVs. the idea here is to ask your reps to support the up coming bill and see to it that its pushed into law. the bill will clarify the rules regaurding the opening of road shoulders and allow the counties in the lower to open as needed for your access. its a boon for all of us if this happens because it will show to the county commisioners that we are a responsible group and we have money to spend in the north. Right now the northern counties finally have some snow. if it was a dry year they would be starving to death right now. granted the bit of snow they got already came on the heals of huge losses because the snow came late. if we have the same rights to road shoulder uses then we could backfill the intire state with revenue when theres no snow. if it works as well as I hope we will replace snowmobiles as the dominate supplier of incoming monies to the northern communities, with that comes respect for our sport. so if you can do your best to write a nice letter. form letters are not exceptable thats a proven fact.

February 7th, 2007, 07:22 PM	#5
UPNORTH NO ORV STICKER NEEDED Join Date: 02-09-06 Location: ONLY SOS PLATE NEEDED ON STATE TRAILS PER LAW!! Posts: 86 iTrader: (0)	Sorry but a big no from me. They destroy to much in my area. I like them trailered to there trails. This is why I pay dearly for SOS and ride dual sport.

February 8th, 2007, 04:28 AM	#7
Yetti BUY my P.O.S.! Join Date: 11-05-05 Location: west of Chelsea, and east of Grass lake Posts: 5,860 iTrader: (2)	BJ follow the link to the ordinances http://www.greatlakes4x4.com/showthread.php?t=30899

February 10th, 2007, 07:04 AM	#10
UPNORTH NO ORV STICKER NEEDED Join Date: 02-09-06 Location: ONLY SOS PLATE NEEDED ON STATE TRAILS PER LAW!! Posts: 86 iTrader: (0)	Well did some checking and found this can't happen the way you want it to. But answer me this. Why don't you fight for the group fees to be lowered so when groups like I am a member, like C.C.C., can get together and spread knowledge. Your quest sounds like it is only for one at a time. People need the help of others to learn safety and user skills on any piece of equipment. With the group fees so high most organizations, like the snow packers in St Helen, can give only a small portion to donations. When they used to give allot. And the word is that they and other groups may have to cancel events because of fee constraints from the state. But you like others don't seem to care about groups that can teach good riding skills. You just want a free for all on the roads. I can assure you that riders won't learn if not taught. And yes I’m against any none insured vehicle going down any legal road. What will happen if a child gets hurt or a piece of property gets damaged by an uninsured vehicle on a county maintained road? Oh yes you have to sue the person. You do not get the benefit of having the insurance pay. And who will pay for road maintenance? Oh yes that will be the local taxpayer. The out of area rider will give nothing for the road. And yes I know most all of your wife’s family. And thanks for the eye opening, so I can get on the bandwagon.

February 11th, 2007, 12:41 PM	#12
UPNORTH NO ORV STICKER NEEDED Join Date: 02-09-06 Location: ONLY SOS PLATE NEEDED ON STATE TRAILS PER LAW!! Posts: 86 iTrader: (0)	I can say I have never put much thought into the group fees because its done by the DNR for THE DNR. Contact Joel Sheltrown he is ahead of the committe that can influence the DNR fees for group events. I have contacted him and I know lots of people in St. Helen that are voicing there opinion to him over the fees. by the way I talked to my wifes cousin he's got the same name as your retired sheriff.(hes her second cousin) So your talking about Davey. Know him well. You will have to stop in when up north and go riding. Also bring a mountain bike and be ready for 16 miles of Hanson Hills. Some of the best prep area to build endurance that you will need for off road riding in the area. And in my opinion one of the best mountain bike areas in the north. Just as long as the ORVS stay out of the area. But that is what cell phones and digital cameras are for. Oh and hope your not one of those big tool box riders that has nothing but beer in it. Those folks are lossers on the trail. But fun to throw gravel at when passing.

February 11th, 2007, 02:04 PM	#13
Yetti BUY my P.O.S.! Join Date: 11-05-05 Location: west of Chelsea, and east of Grass lake Posts: 5,860 iTrader: (2)	well my collection has a couple of mountain bikes in it. up to now I have not met "Davey".. I seem to have meet everyone else though. sounds like I need to take a few minutes to write Mr. Sheltrown to get more info on the fee issue? I will do so shortly. on that last part...sorry I only carry extra gas & water, my quads a pack animal. beer is for around the camp fire and thats it. by the way have ever had a "pop" that has been beat down 20 miles of trail? Yeck!

February 11th, 2007, 03:31 PM	#15
Yetti BUY my P.O.S.! Join Date: 11-05-05 Location: west of Chelsea, and east of Grass lake Posts: 5,860 iTrader: (2)	I have moved from Mt.Dew to Propell fitness water & lipton green tea. it doesn't leave you parched 30 minutes later, plus it holds up on the front of a quad. Thats good to hear about Dave. I know his other cousin Dave and hes a nice guy too.

February 12th, 2007, 06:45 PM	#17
Yetti BUY my P.O.S.! Join Date: 11-05-05 Location: west of Chelsea, and east of Grass lake Posts: 5,860 iTrader: (2)	I would love to see this state go to a full registration with plate if it got us unlimited road use. I would galdly pay the $100 a year for that. AZ. has the program there because they have folks who do nothing but road ride. they charge $135 for a plate and then $15 for a 3 year ORV sticker. it sould be the same here. now heres the kicker. If I bring my AZ registered Quad to michigan I can ride it legally! by federal law its allowed because every state has to honer all the licencing allowed by other states. if you wanted you could ride coast to coast on the roads with out issue. the only thing you can't do is ride on federal highways.

February 12th, 2007, 09:16 PM	#18
Pro-Mow Member Join Date: 03-09-06 Location: White Lake Posts: 96 iTrader: (2)	do people make the drive to get that licince every year is that licence availble for the dirt bikes (non enduros) That were polaris got the idea of a street quad for the detroit auto show

February 13th, 2007, 04:33 PM	#20
Yetti BUY my P.O.S.! Join Date: 11-05-05 Location: west of Chelsea, and east of Grass lake Posts: 5,860 iTrader: (2)	Theres accually a push for road quads going on now with the CPSC and they are dead set againest them. if the market could be opened up then all kinds of new machines could appear. Yamaha owns the patents on the single rear wheeled trike so unless someone buys into the rights you won't see any in production anytime soon. there was one about 4 years ago called a "GG" that had a BMW drive line that was sweet looking but only for the road. Peugout also made one. I guess we'll have to wait and see.