Qur'an

[General Lee]

Well, my step-dad and I were chatting last weekend, and he asked me if I really believed that there was only one way to get to Heaven. I responded "yes".

He suddenly became very angry and said that I was very dogmatic; after all, how could I possibly be so ignorant to assume that there was only one right way to get to heaven.

He responded that his belief was that God would take you in "as long as you had a belief system". No specific thing in perticular, just a belief that there is a God.

He also said, "Have you read the Qur'an? What do they say? They say Muhammad is Lord."

I hadn't read the book myself, but I have heard that Muhammad encountered a spirit (not sure of which one exactly) in the desert, and he did not believe at first that it was truly a messenger of Allah. He was later convinced by his wife, who was very rich and helped fund the religion, that it was, in fact, a messenger of Allah...she wasn't even there.

Well, in an effort to try to know what I was talking about and not be so ignorant (as many Christians tend to be), I picked up a Qur'an.

Wow.

(Forgive me, I don't know how to quote it well)

surat Al-'Adiyat (Those That Run) C

6. "Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islam, the Qur'an and Prophet Muhammad) from among the people of Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al-Mushrikun will abide in the Fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures."

Surah 2. Al-Baqarah Part 1

109. "Many of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) wish that if they could turn you away as disbelievers after you have believed, out of envy from their ownselves even after the truth (that Muhammad is Allah's Messenger) has become manifest unto them. But forgive and overlook, till Allah brings His Command. Verily, Allah is able to do all things."

Wow.

I can see why there is so much hate both ways now.

[Haggar]

Is that any different from any other religion?

no.

[General Lee]

Originally Posted by Haggar

Is that any different from any other religion?

no.

Whelp, I'm not claiming to be the biggest Bible buff, but I don't believe that, in our Holy Book, we ever called muslims "The worst of creatures". Do we say in the Bible that they try to make us disbelievers "out of envy from their ownselves"?

[General Lee]

Found another one:

Surah 2. Al-Baqarah Part 1

96. "And verily, you will find them (the Jews) the greediest of mankind for life and (even greedier) than those who ascribe partners to Allah (and do not believe in Resurrection -- Majus, pagans, and idolaters).

I guess I'm just shocked because of all of the...I guess I'd almost call it name calling.

*I just want to make it clear that I'm not trying to fight any point right now. I've never read the Qur'an before, and I'd like to hear from people who have read it or from people who are interested in learning more about different faiths to better understand your own.*

[Haggar]

Where are you getting your quotes?

What version -publisher and edition of the Qur'an- are you looking at..

[Haggar]

Where are you getting your quotes?

What version -publisher and edition of the Qur'an- are you looking at..

[kerryann]

The bible did not reference muslims. Mohammad (the creator of islam) was a prophet after Jesus. The Quran talks about Jesus though as a profit of god.

[Haggar]

I ask, because your translations are wrong, in an inflammatory way.

Al-Adiyat Verses 6 - 11 read:


6. Verily! Man (disbeliever) is ungrateful to his Lord;
7. And to that fact he bears witness (by his deeds);
8. And verily, he is violent in the love of wealth.
9. Knows he not that when the contents of the graves are brought out and poured forth (all mankind is resurrected).
10. And that which is in the breasts (of men) shall be made known.
11. Verily, that Day (i.e. the Day of Resurrection) their Lord will be Well-Acquainted with them (as to their deeds), (and will reward them for their deeds).

[General Lee]

Originally Posted by Haggar

Where are you getting your quotes?

What version -publisher and edition of the Qur'an- are you looking at..

I'm trying to figure that out.

The Noble Qur'an
English Translation of the meanings and commentary

King Fahd Complex for the printing of the Holy Qur'an

Dr. Muhammad Taaqi-ud-Din Al-Hilali and Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan

[Haggar]

I think you got like the 700 Club's guide to the Qur'an or something..

[General Lee]

Oh, it was given to me by my buddy Tamiem.

It was one of his, and He is a strong, practicing muslim, so I figured it was good.

[Sveen]

I'm not surprised

I am an atheist and dislike any religion period because to me all of them seem to say "it's my way or the highway" or if you prefer to use historic words meaning you'll burn in hell or something of that nature.

Then with every religion you got a whole assortment of "beleivers" who all bicker with each other as to how to interpret and beleive in something and say that their way is the only true way. You got everything from the freaking "blow me up" Muslims, to Bible thumping "let's pray for everyhing in my life" guys,, to let me screw your wife & daughter sects, and then caping it off are the relaxed dudes who say screw it with all the rules all God cares about is your "inner faith"
So you get trapped into beleiving in something all you life, worshiping it just that "special" way and then there is a good chance you might end getting screwed at the end cause you didn't "do it" just right, or worse beleive in the wrong freaking god

Screw it, I'll just set my own moral standards

[General Lee]

Originally Posted by Haggar

I ask, because your translations are wrong, in an inflammatory way.

Al-Adiyat Verses 6 - 11 read:


6. Verily! Man (disbeliever) is ungrateful to his Lord;
7. And to that fact he bears witness (by his deeds);
8. And verily, he is violent in the love of wealth.
9. Knows he not that when the contents of the graves are brought out and poured forth (all mankind is resurrected).
10. And that which is in the breasts (of men) shall be made known.
11. Verily, that Day (i.e. the Day of Resurrection) their Lord will be Well-Acquainted with them (as to their deeds), (and will reward them for their deeds).

That might be because I have no idea how to quote this thing (as far as the verse's location).

I'm still trying to catch on to the right to left thing.

[General Lee]

Found this in the back:

"The Ministry of Islamic Affairs, Endowments, Da'wah and Guidance of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia which supervises King Fahd Complex For The Printing of The Holy Qur'an in Madinah Munawwarah is greatly pleased at the publication, by the Complex, of this edition of the Noble Qur'an with the translation of its meanings in English. May Allah make it useful to the Muslims, and grant the Custodian of the two Holy Mosques King Fahd bin 'Abd Al-'Aziz AL-Sa'ud the best reward for his ceaseless effort to disseminate the Noble Book of Allah. And it is Allah Who bestows success."

I guess someone thinks it's legit, but I'm not 100% sure of who exactly the "Ministry of Islamic Affairs, Endowments, Da'wah and Guidance of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia which supervises King Fahd Complex For The Printing of The Holy Qur'an in Madinah Munawwarah" are.

[General Lee]

Originally Posted by Sveen

Screw it, I'll just set my own moral standards

That's a good way to be if you believe it's just about moral standards.

[General Lee]

Originally Posted by Haggar

I ask, because your translations are wrong, in an inflammatory way.

Al-Adiyat Verses 6 - 11 read:


6. Verily! Man (disbeliever) is ungrateful to his Lord;
7. And to that fact he bears witness (by his deeds);
8. And verily, he is violent in the love of wealth.
9. Knows he not that when the contents of the graves are brought out and poured forth (all mankind is resurrected).
10. And that which is in the breasts (of men) shall be made known.
11. Verily, that Day (i.e. the Day of Resurrection) their Lord will be Well-Acquainted with them (as to their deeds), (and will reward them for their deeds).

Try: Surat Al-Bayyinah (The Clear Evidence) XCVIII v6.

That should be right. (it was the whole right to left thing, I accidently put the chapter (or book?) after it.

[brewmenn]

Originally Posted by kerryann

The bible did not reference muslims. Mohammad (the creator of islam) was a prophet after Jesus. The Quran talks about Jesus though as a profit of god.

Yep, the bible doesn't referance muslims, because when the bible was writen there was no such thing as a "muslim"

[brewmenn]

Originally Posted by General Lee

He also said, "Have you read the Qur'an? What do they say? They say Muhammad is Lord."

I don't think the muslims consider Muhammad "lord" the same way Christians consider Jesus "lord"

[General Lee]

Originally Posted by brewmenn

I don't think the muslims consider Muhammad "lord" the same way Christians consider Jesus "lord"

That's my point.

Jesus is the only one to claim that He is God. Not Buddha. Not Muhammad.

No one but Jesus has made that claim. (It's not just Christians considering him to be God. He said it himself!)

[Haggar]

Mohammed is a prophet, not a diety..

Jesus isn't God, either...