States to sue the federal government over gas prices

[Saharaboy]

Dumb Liberals

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...s/14481700.htm
Well its more about fuel regulations, but still dumb

[mikesova]

so what's wrong with wanting vehicles that get better gas mileage and lower emissions?

[mschaffer66]

Originally Posted by mikesova

so what's wrong with wanting vehicles that get better gas mileage and lower emissions?

Its the fact of suing the government to make it happen, you god damn liberal.

Fuck the only thing I can think of that would make that a more liberal argument would be to say, "Its for the children..."

[Captain Ledd]

Originally Posted by mschaffer66

Its the fact of suing the government to make it happen, you god damn liberal.

Fuck the only thing I can think of that would make that a more liberal argument would be to say, "Its for the children..."

I'm very confused..

But anyways.. If the states really wanted to be on the ball they would require filling stations to accomodate at least one renewable alternative fuel for use on vehicles. Better mileage cars are great, but it still contributing to the problem and making things more expensive. Cars running on alternative fuel aren't going to sell if theres no where to fill up, no one will buy them. Once a renewable fuel base is set up (ethanol/biodiesel/etc.) then we can really start taking a chunk out of prices and be able to drive as we normally would. AND get the states economy up a bit by refineries here and local farmers in the state.

The Government isn't the one drilling, pumping, shiping crude, refining, and selling the oil/gasoline/petrol product... I'm not sure what they expect to get out of it. I agree, this particular move is dumb.

[mikesova]

yeah why would you want to hold your government accountable for its own laws?

[Tab]

Thing is, if cars got 60, 70, 1000mpg then gas cost would rise with them. You seriously think the government is going to take a cut out what they get in the cost of gas? If a call uses less gas (less money for government) then it will just go up for whatever reason they can think of in addition to supply and demand shortages. The government makes far more money on fuel than the gas companies.

[mikesova]

Originally Posted by Tab

Thing is, if cars got 60, 70, 1000mpg then gas cost would rise with them. You seriously think the government is going to take a cut out what they get in the cost of gas? If a call uses less gas (less money for government) then it will just go up for whatever reason they can think of in addition to supply and demand shortages. The government makes far more money on fuel than the gas companies.

not everything is about $$

[mschaffer66]

Originally Posted by mikesova

yeah why would you want to hold your government accountable for its own laws?

You are right...i was totally wrong. In fact I'm going to jump on this band wagon too.

Right now I'm working to get a suit together against to government to have laws put in effect capping the price that the Big 3 can charge for a vehicle. Hell yeah, then I can get my 10,000lb, 4mpg, luxury SUV for $10,000 and only have to pay $.50 a gallon for gas. Shit, I'll be living like a king!!!

The thing is that the automotive makers make a wide range of vehicles. They make small cars that get 30+mpg and then they make big SUV's that get 8mpg. The beautiful thing about this country is that YOU get to choose which one you want to afford. Its not really anyone else's problem but your own that YOU buy a $50k SUV and can't afford to fill up the tank.

People just bitch because this is a new concept for them. In reality its no different than anything else in life. Its all about what you can afford, what you can't afford, and what you want to afford.

[mikesova]

Originally Posted by mschaffer66

You are right...i was totally wrong. In fact I'm going to jump on this band wagon too.

Right now I'm working to get a suit together against to government to have laws put in effect capping the price that the Big 3 can charge for a vehicle. Hell yeah, then I can get my 10,000lb, 4mpg, luxury SUV for $10,000 and only have to pay $.50 a gallon for gas. Shit, I'll be living like a king!!!

The thing is that the automotive makers make a wide range of vehicles. They make small cars that get 30+mpg and then they make big SUV's that get 8mpg. The beautiful thing about this country is that YOU get to choose which one you want to afford. Its not really anyone else's problem but your own that YOU buy a $50k SUV and can't afford to fill up the tank.

People just bitch because this is a new concept for them. In reality its no different than anything else in life. Its all about what you can afford, what you can't afford, and what you want to afford.

They aren't suing to have a new law created and put into effect.

[JellyBelly]

10 states sue government over fuel economy rules

KEN THOMAS
Associated Press

WASHINGTON - California and nine other states sued the federal government Tuesday, trying to force the Bush administration to strengthen gas mileage requirements for sport utility vehicles and pickup trucks.

The lawsuit contends the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration failed to conduct a thorough analysis of the environmental benefits of fuel economy regulations and the impact of gasoline consumption on climate change.

"The federal agency has ignored the law that requires integrating environmental impacts into their standard-setting," said California Attorney General Bill Lockyer.

With many consumers facing gas prices exceeding $3 a gallon and Congress looking at potential remedies, the states filed a petition for review with the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco. The action follows the federal government's issuance of a rule in late March setting tighter gas mileage rules for pickups, SUVs and vans covering the 2008-2011 model years.

The Bush administration said the program, based on the vehicle's size, was expected to save 10.7 billion gallons of fuel over the lifetime of the vehicles sold during that period. The program - expected to lead to a fleetwide average of 24 miles per gallon by 2011 - will be phased in through 2010 and take full effect the following year.

NHTSA spokesman Rae Tyson defended the rulemaking process, saying the agency conducted a thorough analysis of fuel-saving technologies while balancing the need to raise standards with safety and economic ramifications.

"We're confident that we went through a very rigorous process in writing the final light truck standard and we're confident that it will get upheld in court," Tyson said.

Charles Territo, a spokesman for the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, declined comment on the lawsuit. The trade group that represents nine automakers has said the new standards will be a challenge but they have developed alternative-fuel vehicles and more than 100 vehicles earning at least 30 miles per gallon.

Plans for the lawsuit were first reported by The New York Times and the Los Angeles Times.

Amid rising gas prices and worries about energy independence, the administration asked Congress last week to give it the authority to change fuel economy standards for passenger cars. Transportation Secretary Norman Y. Mineta was scheduled to testify Wednesday before a House committee discussing the proposal.

Connecticut Attorney General Richard Blumenthal said the federal government's analysis was "fundamentally flawed" and the new regulations failed "to consider the dangerous impact of gasoline consumption on climate change," allowing larger vehicles to be built with greater weight and less fuel economy.

"The proposed upgrade in fuel economy standards is a complete sham and a gift to the auto industry," Blumenthal said.

The attorneys general said they were also concerned that the government argues that its fuel economy standards would pre-empt California's regulation of greenhouse gas emissions.

Similar lawsuits were filed last month by the Tucson, Ariz.-based Center for Biological Diversity and the Natural Resources Defense Council. Several environmental groups, including the Sierra Club, are expected to sue the government over the regulation later this month, said Dan Becker, director of the Sierra Club's global warming program.

The 10 states are California, Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island and Vermont. The District of Columbia and New York City were also plaintiffs.

[Tab]

Originally Posted by mikesova

not everything is about $$

It is to the government.

[brewmenn]

Originally Posted by mikesova

so what's wrong with wanting vehicles that get better gas mileage and lower emissions?

nothing. but which method shall we impose on you to get there? Pick one:

1) quit selling large vehicles, only allow the sale of puckups, SUV, 4x4's, and vans to people who an show a justifiable need for such a vehicle.

2) Limit engine size to a certian hp/lb so we don't have these overly powerful vehicles wasting gas.

3) Force the automaker to use even more high priced technology to squeeze out every MPG possible.

4) forbid the sale of any vehicle that is not efficiant due to it being non aerodynamic or is otherwise not up to a certian level of efficiancy?

[Motor Slut]

The question imposed here is: If the government can say what you can and can not build and sell to people what is the point of the Constitution and all the freedoms we supposedly have from it?

The next question is who is making gas mileage worse: consumers wanting big vehicles, or the government imposing safety standards that lead to heavier vehicles that get worse milage, or the emissions standards that also lead to bad mileage, or is it something else?

[Ebs]

I can't wait until the government just takes the money out of my paycheck and buys the best car for me. Life would be so much easier if I didn't have to make decisions.

[mschaffer66]

Hey I've got an idea that will solve all problems...why don't we just have the government control everying to do with the cost of all products. They could also control how much we all would make.

Hmmm....that concept sounds kind of familiar...

[chris1044]

Originally Posted by Motor Slut

The question imposed here is: If the government can say what you can and can not build and sell to people what is the point of the Constitution and all the freedoms we supposedly have from it?

The next question is who is making gas mileage worse: consumers wanting big vehicles, or the government imposing safety standards that lead to heavier vehicles that get worse milage, or the emissions standards that also lead to bad mileage, or is it something else?

I dont know, but lets sue - that solves every problem

This is almost the dumbest thing i've heard all week - lets sue to increase a vehicles fuel economy numbers because gas is $3+ per gallon. So, instead of paying alot for gas (we'll save money because MPG will be up and we won't have to buy as much) we'll pay more for the technology and R&D that goes into making the cars with higher standards - and if we sue, that technology will have to come uber fast - surely spiking the cost of these new fangled super cars